[pclayton]

Its odd what a 900 mile drive can make your mind conjure up. Last summer I'm driving up Rte 93 through the middle of Nevada when this nugget came into my brain:

____________________________________________________________

Here’s a little defensive problem. You defend 3N (1N (15-17) – 3N) and partner leads the heart 6 (4th best). You hold:

Scoring: IMP

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Dummy wins the Jack and you show count with the 8 and declarer plays the 4. Declarer plays the ♦2 off the board.

Your play?

Hint - there's more to this than meets the eye. Don't think too much about this, but I would like to see a few answers before I repost. Its the theme that I think is interesting.

This post has been edited by pclayton: 2004-November-15, 18:30

[the hog]

DK and another H

[scoob]

Quote

Don't think too much about this...

ok. duck.

[inquiry]

1 Notrump range?

Leads fourth best? Declarer has at least KQ of hearts left, and maybe a four card suit. We think declarer may have four spades. One possibility is he has something like 4432 or 4342. So one thought here is jump diamond ace, and underlead club king. But we have to count declarer's tricks before we commit to this defense, rather than the normal diamond King and return a heart.

So construct some reasonable hands. KQxx AQx JTx AJ is 9 tricks anyway (3D, 3S, 2H, 2C), so this club defense requires partner to have spade queen, giving south a dead minimum 15 count. I will at least consider this defense. we duck two rounds of clubs (declarer gets 2C, 3D, 2S and 1H, but when partner gets his heart king, he continues third round of clubs, giving us 2D, 1H and 3C-- except they have 8 tricks).

[pclayton]

inquiry, on Nov 15 2004, 04:24 PM, said:

1 Notrump range?

Leads fourth best? Declarer has at least KQ of hearts left, and maybe a four card suit. We think declarer may have four spades. One possibility is he has something like 4432 or 4342. So one thought here is jump diamond ace, and underlead club king. But we have to count declarer's tricks before we commit to this defense, rather than the normal diamond King and return a heart.

So construct some reasonable hands. KQxx AQx JTx AJ is 9 tricks anyway (3D, 3S, 2H, 2C), so this club defense requires partner to have spade queen, giving south a dead minimum 15 count. I will at least consider this defense. we duck two rounds of clubs (declarer gets 2C, 3D, 2S and 1H, but when partner gets his heart king, he continues third round of clubs, giving us 2D, 1H and 3C-- except they have 8 tricks).

Sorry - yes - 4th best and 15-17 NT.

[inquiry]

Ok.. then there are two lines of defense.

1) if partner has heart King fifth and diamond ace, we win diamond king and clear hearts.

2) If partner has heart fourth, and diamond ace, we win diamond king, and shift to a low club.

I don't know which is the best chance. The lack of a visible heart 2 suggest partner might have 5♥, but declarer might play heart 4 from AQ42 to play with you mind. If declarer is an "honest" sort, i win diamond king and fire a heart. If declarer is not so honest, it seems a guess to me... but since we can beat declarer when he has max with four spades to KQ with win and return a heart (if partner has five), I guess I would probably play that way.

Ben

[Free]

♦K (obviously) and a ♥ return. You might hope that declarer has only 2 ♦s (Ax) and play small (he'll play exactly this way), but he'll still need 2 exits in ♦ before he can take his 5th ♦.

[pclayton]

Thank you all for the responses.

Here's a play problem:

Scoring: IMP

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West leads the ♥6 and dummy's jack wins.

The prospects are not good. 2♠'s, 3♥'s and 3♣'s (at best) only gets you to 8 tricks. So diamonds must be established. We are taught the best way to play this suit combination is to lead up to the Q twice. This will win 3 tricks in 4 combinations; AK, AKJ, AKT, AK4, and 2 tricks in all other 3-2's and when West has AKxx.

While we only need 2 diamond tricks, we have a tempo problem. If West has honor-third, they will knock out the AK♥ and the wrong hand is winning the 3rd diamond. Furthermore, even if East has the 3rd diamond, a smart defender is shifting to a spade, presumably establishing 2 tricks there, and giving the defenders 3 diamonds and 2 hearts / or spades.

However, our East has read the same books we have and knows to play 2nd hand high when holding Ax or Kx and even Axx and Kxx. A total of TWELVE combinations or 3X better than leading toward the Queen!

So, you try a little alchemy by leading a small diamond off the board at trick 2. Note East has to make a decision mid-trick; even if the opponents are playing Smith Echo, he has to commit.

I've never seen this concept discussed in any bridge literature. Thoughts?

[FrancesHinden]

I was thinking more of something like this:


Or this

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Now you look _really silly_ putting in the DK.
(yes, I know partner probably would have led a spade on this layout, but I can probably fiddle it slightly better if I try)

[pclayton]

FrancesHinden, on Nov 16 2004, 09:04 AM, said:

I was thinking more of something like this:


Or this

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ A4 ♥ J103 ♦ Q8652 ♣ Q76 ♠ KQ ♥ KQ4 ♦ A1093 ♣ QJ54

Now you look _really silly_ putting in the DK.
(yes, I know partner probably would have led a spade on this layout, but I can probably fiddle it slightly better if I try)

Nah; with AT9x, declarer's play with this suit combo is the Q.

If you want to tweak the hand where the K♦ is wrong in a realistic layout, give declarer ATx (close, but I'd hook the 10 1st) of Axx (misguess) of diamonds and one more spade. On your layout, partner is sitting with 5-5 in the majors and an 8 count; many would come in over 1N.

A few posters (Ron, Frederick and Ben (well, sort of)) whose defensive skills I have tremendous respect for have already checked in and said that they'd play the K♦.

But the point of this discussion is not a test of anyone's defensive skills and not to determine the if K♦ is right. Obviously it could be very right or very wrong, depending on the layout. If you pressed me, I'd say its more right than usual, however.

The central theme is whether or not its right to play the hand as the declarer by peeling a small diamond off the board at T2.

[jtfanclub]

OK....so, lead is a heart, jack wins. (1-0)
Diamond is led, won by West with the ten. (1-1)
Spade back, won with the king. (2-1)
Diamond to the 8 and king. (2-2)
Spade knocking out the ace. (3-2)

Can you still make it?

On the other hand...lead is a heart, jack wins (1-0)
Diamond is led, won by East with the king (1-1)
Heart back, won with the king (2-1)
Diamond toward dummy, to the A (2-2)
Heart back, won with the ace (3-2)
Spade ace (4-2)
Diamond queen (5-2). Oops. No split. Darn.
Club queen, to the K and ace (6-2)
Club jack (7-2)
Club ten (8-2)
Spade king (9-2).

Looks to me in the example, that ducking the diamond king and having partner switch to a spade sets the contract, while going up with the king and playing a heart (or club) allows the contract to make.

Anybody see a mistake?
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If none, then the answer is to do this only to good players. Against the rest of us, you'll have to settle for trying for four club tricks immediately.

[pclayton]

In the 2nd set, diamonds are 3-2 and you make 1 club, 3 hearts, 3 diamonds and 2 spades. You only need diamonds 3-2, 4-1 gives you problems.

It appears you miscounted the diamonds - maybe you thought there were only 7 between the hands instead of 8.

[luke warm]

i think he needs the J to play Q first... play low to the 9 (there are only 2 in sequence in both hands, not 3 - a`la klinger)

[kvetcher]

♦K then ♥

Playing Declarer for original holding of :
♠ KQxx
♥ AQ4
♦ J10xx
♣ A10

If you don't win partner can't attack ♥ before the ♦ suit is established
for 9 tricks

Note if Declarer has only 3♦ J10x W. can duck the ♦ - twice
if necessary with ♦ Axx to allow his partner to win the ♦ K
and return a ♥

However this play does not work if Declarer's hand is :

♠ KQxx
♥ AQ4
♦ J10x
♣ AJ10

as when the ♦ J holds Declarer can cross to the Dummy with the ♠ A
And lead the ♣ Q to make 9 tricks 3♠, 2♥, 1♦, & 3♣