What is the ave? question about slow play in ACBL speedball
#1
Posted 2012-April-02, 10:18
Director summoned with complain about slow play. Director came, noticed slow play, and rushed the slow player. The slow player speed up a little but became very slow again after director left the table. Director summoned the second time and watched the slow play. Then last board of the round been skipped and average assigned. I don't really care about result for responsible for the slow game pair.
But what about innocent pair?
If, say, pair with no fault had the average result in the tournament ~77%, what result in the skept board should be adjusted to them 50% or 77%?
#2
Posted 2012-April-02, 11:12
#3
Posted 2012-April-02, 11:58
ArtK78, on 2012-April-02, 11:12, said:
These comments are accurate with respect to Average Plus; however, an Average score is 50%.
#4
Posted 2012-April-02, 12:36
Vampyr, on 2012-April-02, 11:58, said:
ArtK78, on 2012-April-02, 11:12, said:
These comments are accurate with respect to Average Plus; however, an Average score is 50%.
There are many reasons for assigning an average score for a board to a pair when the pair is totally innocent of any wrongdoing on the board. It makes no sense for a pair with a significantly above-average game to be awarded a 50% score on a hand through no fault of their own.
It has always been my understanding that the award of an average score was actually an award of 50% or a pair's percentage score, whichever is higher. If that is not the case, it should be.
#5
Posted 2012-April-02, 15:33
ArtK78, on 2012-April-02, 12:36, said:
That's why a pair which was in no way at fault is normally given Average-Plus.
Quote
It has always been my understanding that the award of an average score was actually an award of 50% or a pair's percentage score, whichever is higher. If that is not the case, it should be.
This is an Average-Plus, except that the minimum is 60%.
#6
Posted 2012-April-02, 16:10
Law 12C said:
c. The foregoing is modified for a non-offending contestant that obtains a session score exceeding 60% of the available matchpoints or for an offending contestant that obtains a session score that is less than 40% of the available matchpoints (or the equivalent in imps). Such contestants are awarded the percentage obtained (or the equivalent in imps) on the other boards of that session.
The assigned score is 60% if your side is not at fault, 50% if you're partially at fault. So if all the lateness was caused by the opponents, then they get Ave-, you get Ave+, and 12C2c says that this means the max of 60% and your session score, so it can only improve your score.
If both sides are partially at fault, they each get Ave. In this case, there's no non-offending side, so no one gets a bump up to their session score above 60%. They're both offending, so if either of them has a session score below 40%, that will be the score assigned to the board.
This is what the Laws say. I haven't checked the BBO code to see if we actually do it as stated in the Laws.
#7
Posted 2012-April-02, 16:20
barmar, on 2012-April-02, 16:10, said:
A side partially at fault gets an Average. This can never be modified to "below 40%". An Average is 50%.
#8
Posted 2012-April-03, 13:49
Vampyr, on 2012-April-02, 16:20, said:
If they're partially at fault, then they're an "offending contestant". The Law I quoted says that if their session score is less than 40%, the assigned score is modified to their score on the rest of the boards of the session. It doesn't say this only happens if they were assigned Average Minus.
#9
Posted 2012-April-03, 17:48
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#10
Posted 2012-April-05, 07:29
barmar, on 2012-April-03, 13:49, said:
No, it doesn't.
If a side is partly at fault, it gets Average, which is 50% in a pair game, never more nor less.
Merseyside England UK
EBL TD
Currently at home
Visiting IBLF from time to time
<webjak666@gmail.com>
#11
Posted 2012-April-05, 08:21
Or is it because 12C2a uses "at most" and "at least" only when describing Ave- and Ave+, and not when mentioning Ave, so the modifications in 12C2c don't apply to the latter case?
#12
Posted 2012-April-05, 08:30
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#13
Posted 2012-April-05, 12:38
This looks like a "send to Grattan, for his 'clarify' file" case.
#14
Posted 2012-April-05, 14:11
#15
Posted 2012-April-05, 17:45
There is absolutely no point in doing what people do on BLML, and try to do on IBLF, namely take no notice of what is actually done and argue something else which is a possible reading of the Laws. It does not really matter a sparrow's f**t whether it could be read that way when you know it does not mean that way and no-one else reads it that way.
Average Plus is 60% or your session score, whichever is greater.
Average is 50%.
Average Minus outside the ACBL is 40% or your session score, whichever is less.
Average Minus in the ACBL is 40% or your 100% less your opponent's session score, whichever is less.
That is what they are, so sue me.
Merseyside England UK
EBL TD
Currently at home
Visiting IBLF from time to time
<webjak666@gmail.com>
#16
Posted 2012-April-06, 06:58
olegru, on 2012-April-02, 10:18, said:
Director summoned with complain about slow play. Director came, noticed slow play, and rushed the slow player. The slow player speed up a little but became very slow again after director left the table. Director summoned the second time and watched the slow play. Then last board of the round been skipped and average assigned. I don't really care about result for responsible for the slow game pair.
But what about innocent pair?
If, say, pair with no fault had the average result in the tournament ~77%, what result in the skept board should be adjusted to them 50% or 77%?
If Director determines there was an innocent pair, he should adjust the board from Ave/Ave to Ave+/Ave-.
-- Bertrand Russell
#17
Posted 2012-April-06, 09:45
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#18
Posted 2012-April-24, 17:24
If a board would have been played if AB had done nothing wrong, and would also have been played if CD had done nothing wrong, that does not mean both are partly at fault: it means both are completely at fault.
Merseyside England UK
EBL TD
Currently at home
Visiting IBLF from time to time
<webjak666@gmail.com>
#19
Posted 2012-April-25, 06:37
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#20
Posted 2012-April-25, 09:23
If something would not have occurred because of what you did unless someone else did something as well you are partly responsible.
If something would have occurred because of what you did even if someone else who did something had not then you are directly responsible.
Merseyside England UK
EBL TD
Currently at home
Visiting IBLF from time to time
<webjak666@gmail.com>