[levier17]

[/color]comments

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I strongly believe 2C should show a hand like this. GIB doesn't know this and puts us in a terrible position. Now if I bid 3C, it says it is 17-18 points.

[Bbradley62]

But, you DO have 17 total points... 7 in ♠ + 2 in ♥ + 1 in ♦ + 7 in ♣.

[nathan2008]

You can always check others' bidding to see how they bid. I remember this hand, i opened 1nt and 1nt+2. Some reached 3nt. Now even with humans, if opps are not top players, i also open 1nt with 5413 14 HCP, etc.

[Stephen Tu]

nathan2008, on 2012-June-11, 02:46, said:

You can always check others' bidding to see how they bid. I remember this hand, i opened 1nt and 1nt+2. Some reached 3nt. Now even with humans, if opps are not top players, i also open 1nt with 5413 14 HCP, etc.

Nathan, you really ought to stop with this kind of comment you do all the time here. This forum isn't really meant for "how should humans distort the bidding to best take advantage of poor robot defense (and lack of proper disclosure to robots, you have no mechanism to inform them of frequent 1nt on singleton as would be required in a real-life game), and avoid GIB bidding holes". If you want to discuss anti-robot strategies, do it in a separate thread, not in threads about specific GIB bidding bugs.

GIB bug reports are for "how can we get GIB to bid more normally" in various situations. Hopefully the more we do this, the less effective strange bidding will be vs. GIB, as normal bidding becomes more accurate. When instead of offering improvements to the auction, you just say "oh, the human should have bid something weird/differently, that's "GIB style" how you should play vs. robots", you are pulling the topic off-course, and not contributing to improving GIB's bidding on normal auctions at all. We want "GIB's bids should mean this instead of that", and "GIB should bid this here not that". Not "Oh human could have done something weird, open 1nt all the time, then it wouldn't have happened". How does second comment improve GIB's bidding? You want GIB remain current state forever, human always have to do weird things to avoid GIB mistakes? I want the robot game to get closer & closer to simulate playing vs. decent human opposition, not be a weird "anti-BBO-specific-bot-bugs" specialty thing.

In this auction, clearly the 2c and 2d bids are ill-defined and should be fixed. 2c needs more clubs, much lower range (12-15(16?) instead of 14-22?), and 2d should deny any sort of club fit, perhaps it should be some 3550?

[nathan2008]

Stephen Tu, on 2012-June-11, 10:23, said:

In this auction, clearly the 2c and 2d bids are ill-defined and should be fixed. 2c needs more clubs, much lower range (12-15(16?) instead of 14-22?), and 2d should deny any sort of club fit, perhaps it should be some 3550?

OK. I would like to tell you, if my pd is weaker than me, i will always open 1nt to make sure i am declarer so that pd won't make me crazy. Even with human, i would open 1nt this hand. That is all. This is not anti-GIB, it is just to make sure i am dec and i play. If i make a mistake in playing, i will note it and try to avoid it next time.

And, i don't think this hand is a bug. You can check levier17's posts. Most posts are not a BUG and he is not happy. I just try to make him happy. if GIB has 3550, he will 100% not rebid 1nt. GIB's rebid 1nt= every suit has more than 2 cards. For this hand, 2d is 100% ok, (because 1nt shows balanced, 2-4 C.) he MUST bid 3c because he must know GIB has at least 2 clubs (in the explanation). if 3550, GIB will bid 3D if 9-11 HCP, if better 2D(4th suit). Of course i know what is a BUG, what is not.

To levier17: If GIB has 3451, his first bid is 1d on 1c. If 3541, i bet that he would pass 1s. When GIB bids NT, in most cases, he has no single. I know u are a good player, i am sure u will find a way soon.

[Stephen Tu]

nathan2008, on 2012-June-11, 15:43, said:

OK. I would like to tell you, if my pd is weaker than me, i will always open 1nt to make sure i am declarer so that pd won't make me crazy. Even with human, i would open 1nt this hand. That is all. This is not anti-GIB, it is just to make sure i am dec and i play. If i make a mistake in playing, i will note it and try to avoid it next time.

That's very anti-partnership. It might be a way to play if you are pro playing with terrible client and the only goal is to get masterpoints and avoid client playing hands and learning anything. But it's not very good bridge in other situations, you can often miss good black suit partials to play a bad 1nt, play NT from your side of the table when partner has positional red-suit stoppers, and really not very much upside if your partner can declare at all proficiently. And it's unethical if it's not disclosed to the opponents that you are opening everything ~14-18 1nt, singleton or not

Telling people to just open 1nt on everything is neither a good bridge suggestion in general, nor is it helpful in *improving GIB's bidding*. The only thing it is, is a possible strategy for maximizing one's score in robot tourneys, given poor defense by the opponents who will defend even worse since they haven't been given proper disclosure, and a way to avoid bidding holes (since 1nt auctions mostly debugged), and a way to hog the hands (which might be good since GIB is set to play fast and sometimes sloppy as declarer). But that is not what these bug reports are about, which is why I am asking you to stop suggesting people bid strangely to cater to GIB, and instead suggest how GIB can bid better to cater to people bidding normally.

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And, i don't think this hand is a bug. You can check levier17's posts. Most posts are not a BUG and he is not happy. I just try to make him happy.

His posts are about GIB's BUGS. He is hoping that GIB's bugs get FIXED, where possible. You are not making anyone happy by suggesting people bid in weird ways so that they can avoid GIB's problems. They did not ask for suggestions on how one can bid weird to cater to GIB's idiosyncrasies. We are asking for GIB to bid *normally*, so that we can also bid *normally*.

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if GIB has 3550, he will 100% not rebid 1nt. GIB's rebid 1nt= every suit has more than 2 cards.

And that is a bug. 1nt should not require 2+ cds in all suits on a 1c-1h-1s-1nt auction. Otherwise responder with many 1(543)/3550/1453 type shapes is absolutely stuck. Not strong enough for 2d GF, not strong enough for 2nt, not really great to bid 2c on 3 since GIB often 4333. But if pass 1s, may miss game, or be in a terrible spot. Requiring balanced hand for 1nt apply for *opening bid*. It does not make sense to require it for rebids. Sometimes you have no fit, and 1nt is best spot, and sometimes partner can still be quite strong so you just have to keep bidding open and 1nt is the only reasonable thing to do.

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For this hand, 2d is 100% ok, (because 1nt shows balanced, 2-4 C.) he MUST bid 3c because he must know GIB has at least 2 clubs (in the explanation)

No, we want to fix GIB, not have humans bid weird to cater to GIB. What good human is going to bid 2d with club fit? No one. So GIB bidding 2d is a bug. It should pass, because game is not supposed to be likely, 2c is a reasonable spot, and there's no upside in being higher. Bidding 2d accomplishes nothing, and is thus a BUG. Levier's 2c is arguably an underbid, 3c could be considered, but over 2c, GIB bidding anything is a BUG. It probably bid something, because the 2c bid had no appreciable upper limit, thought game was still possible, and other bids showed more points, so it tried 2d. 2c not having an upper limit is also a bug. Yes, Levier could have look at the description for 2d, see that it promised 2-4 clubs, and thus know to rebid 3c. But that doesn't mean that 2d isn't a BUG, and should NOT promise 2-4 clubs.

[nathan2008]

Stephen Tu, on 2012-June-11, 16:53, said:

And that is a bug. 1nt should not require 2+ cds in all suits on a 1c-1h-1s-1nt auction. Otherwise responder with many 1(543)/3550/1453 type shapes is absolutely stuck. Not strong enough for 2d GF, not strong enough for 2nt, not really great to bid 2c on 3 since GIB often 4333. But if pass 1s, may miss game, or be in a terrible spot. Requiring balanced hand for 1nt apply for *opening bid*. It does not make sense to require it for rebids. Sometimes you have no fit, and 1nt is best spot, and sometimes partner can still be quite strong so you just have to keep bidding open and 1nt is the only reasonable thing to do.

1. I told u, the condition is that "my pd is weaker than me." If i let him play, i will get crazy. I still remembered how he made a very cold 3nt down. Also u can check Zia's hands. He often opens 1nt with singleton.

2. I repeated again, if 1453, GIB would first bid 1D. if 3550, he would bid 3D if 11- HCP. If 1543, he will bid 1nt i believe. Anyway in no case will he bid 1nt with 0 or 1 club. 1NT= 2-4 clubs. ALWAYS.(explained in 1nt)

3. Don't u think if north passed 2c, east would bid 2D in the balanced place? i believe that in the book, 2c here should show 6+C. 2D just to block opps' bid and let pd choose to play a contract. I admit that 95% players won't bid 2d here, but 2d is ok for me. South always has a chance to choose the right contract.