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BBF vs JEC #6 Board #8 ATB

Poll: BBF vs JEC #6 (4 member(s) have cast votes)

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  1. West (0 votes [0.00%])

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  2. East (2 votes [50.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  3. Both (2 votes [50.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  4. None (0 votes [0.00%])

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#1 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 00:03

This is open room auction, West: Gnasher and East Han, a board that costed 13 imps when we were leading by about 20 imps, a momentum that they needed, when closed room played in 4 after Mgoetze's 3 overcall, which i think was pretty normal action. Note that Sementa's 2 also misled his pd who was unaware that 4 was cold and doubled 4, giving another chance to EW to reconsider.




Some argued that East (Han) could make a COG (choice of games ) 4 bid over 3NT, but i personally dont like choice of games bids over 3 NT, it is very easy to confuse it with slam ambition bids. What do you think overall about this auction ?
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#2 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 01:23

I think I should have bid 3 over 3. I managed to convey to Han that 3NT might not be a good idea, but not that I had a sixth spade.

I do like choice-of-games bids, but not when they're undiscussed.
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#3 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 01:55

I agree with gnasher here, but knowing how much Andy likes choice of games cuebids I could have bid 4D.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#4 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 02:53

I also agree that Andy should have bid 3 rather than 3NT, but I think there is also a case to be made for Han to pull 4x to 4. From the bidding it is very likely that Andy has Axx(x) (typical holding for 3-then-3NT) and a singleton heart, and we know the ruffing finesse in hearts is on now, so even if it's only a 5-2 fit 4 rates to have quite some play. Not saying it's 100%, just something worth considering.
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#5 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 03:18

Trust me, I considered it. I also rejected it. :(
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#6 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 08:10

Somebody must bid 3, not sure if andy´s first round, han´s next, or andy again, but somebody. IMO han´s hand is very well suited for spades.
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#7 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 08:30

I like everything up to 3. 3 could be a number of different hands, but its quite likely that partner has six spades at this point if he has a diamond card. With the overcall on the left, there's no benefit to trying to rightside 3N with Axx or Kxx. Its possible partner is just stalling with 3 without diamond card, and without six spades, but if that is the case, partner has a great five card suit and the K or Q.

Therefore, over 3, I like 3 with Han's. It doesn't finalize strain - over 3N I can go back to 4.
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#8 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-April-17, 08:46

Han just gave me this hand online before I read the thread.

My insta reaction was 4D over 3N. Then I considered it for much longer and decided on 4H. It is a close decision, I didn't think partner would have 6 good spades. I was imagining more 5 good spades or 6 bad spades, in which case it seemed like insisting on hearts was right.

I think 3N over 3H is a pretty serious error. By bidding 3D followed by 3S, you have already tempered off your max spade holding, and have implied a diamond stopper. If you just had AQJxxx of spades, you would bid 3S over 3C. By bidding 3D before 3S you are very likely to have that spade holding + a diamond stopper like the ace. You might also bid 3D with some Hx of hearts and 6 spades, but then you can either raise 3H to 4, or after bidding 3S pull 3N from partner to 4H (obv he has either 6 hearts, or 5 good hearts and no diamond stopper for 3H then 3N). 3D then 3N would be a normal way to bid if you had 1 less spade and 1 more diamond and the same hand.

That said, I am not convinced that 4H is better than 4D, maybe I think I just overthought it, it's not like I have AQJTxx of hearts, I have a 2 loser suit. Always go with your first instinct lol. At the end of the day 4D just shows my hand really well and leaves it up to partner, that is why it just jumped out at me when given the problem.
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#9 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2012-April-17, 08:57

I agree with phil 3d can be made on a variety of hands
(maybe more than he suggests). E knows p has at most 2
hearts when W bids 3d. If W has only 5 spades that
means 6 minor suit cards and a chance clubs might still
be the right contract if p has only 1/0 hearts and
an increasing amount of minor suit cards.

A 3s bid here (not having cue or bid 3s over 2s) means
this bid should promise a doubleton. W can then bid 4d
(catering to a stronger E hand) and e can bid 4h
(catering to a stronger W hand) and w will then bid 4s
to limit their hand and e passes.

3s by east (over 3d) does not end the bidding and there
are many different possible places to play still. On this
hand it gets the partnership to 4s.

What little blame there is on this hand I give to
east but its not a huge amount of blame.
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#10 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-April-17, 16:32

That makes it two people that have suggested a 3S bid over 3D, and both former teammates. I think it is lunacy.

Perhaps if partner bids 3NT and you pull to 4H you have shown this shape. Have you shown such a good heart suit and a small doubleton spade? I don't think so, I think you could even have a hand like Qx AKJ10x xx Axxx. Yes, I think you could bid this way with a good 5-card heart suit.

And what if partner doesn't bid 3NT but for instance 4C, isn't partner holding a 5-1-3-4 shape with 4 so-so clubs a reasonably likely hand for 2S followed by 3D? Do you think your 4H bid then shows that you have this good hearts and two small spades?

I think both posters suffered seriously from seeing both hands, so I won't hold it against them. But the whole idea that the way to find the excellent spade fit here is that responder needs to raise on xx before rebidding AQJxxx (and before opener rebids his AQJxxx) is too "expert" for me.

Having said that, I do like bidding 4D with my hand over 3NT.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#11 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-April-17, 18:55

+1 to han i think bidding 3S rather than 3H is hopeless. On top of what han said, if spades are right you can still bid 3H-3S-4S most of the time.
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