[whereagles]

Matchpoints against an intermediate field.

At all vuln, you are dealer and pick up:

♠x
♥Txx
♦Txx
♣QJT97x

Your pard is an intermediate player who you only play once in a while, so you didn't get into details about vulnerable preempts. Pard's not used to off-the-record tactical bids, but he's not the sort of person who'll play you for the world when you open a vuln 3C. You gaze into your opponents, who are solid bidders with 20+ years experience, but can't find any visible signs of bidding ache.

Under these conditions, do you open 3C?

[the hog]

Not vul vs vul I would. Not here however.

[joker_gib]

1st and 2nd seat, my prempts are very disciplined and promise 7 card quit with 2 of the big honours !

So I will not open that !

By the way, vul, you can go for a lot with that garbage !

[jtfanclub]

whereagles, on Oct 15 2004, 03:07 AM, said:

Matchpoints against an intermediate field.

At all vuln, you are dealer and pick up:

♠x
♥Txx
♦Txx
♣QJT97x

Your pard is an intermediate player who you only play once in a while, so you didn't get into details about vulnerable preempts. Pard's not used to off-the-record tactical bids, but he's not the sort of person who'll play you for the world when you open a vuln 3C. You gaze into your opponents, who are solid bidders with 20+ years experience, but can't find any visible signs of bidding ache.

Under these conditions, do you open 3C?

Heck no.

Playing SAYC, I expect my partner to convert a 3m bid to 3NT with a 1NT opener (15-17 hcp) and either Hx or xxx in my suit.

---

That's the minimum I'd bid 3♣ with 1st or second seat. Vulnerability doesn't matter, because I'm a lot more worried about being in a terrible game or missing an excellent one than I am about going down for a phone number.

Third hand, I still wouldn't open your example vulnerable.

[joker_gib]

jtfanclub, on Oct 15 2004, 03:49 AM, said:

Third hand, I still wouldn't open your example vulnerable.

Same for me

[Gerben47]

No. It's not my style.
Discipline in preempts is very important and without agreement you have to assume standard style which means this is not it.

[cherdano]

I agree with all respondents so far. In fact, I would understand someone being upset about his partner opening this. It is just not what partner expects, and there are various ways in which this bid can lead to disaster. A save by partner in 5♣. A LAW-penalty pass of 3♣-X by opponents. 3NT by partner down several.

Even if this gets passed out, I would not be happy, as we are probably playing in a 7 or 8 card fit, as partner might well raise with 3 support, expecting standard-style preempt.

[Fluffy]

Only in thrid position, and no if I am vulnerable adn opponents aren´t.

[daswallow]

I would definitely not open this 3c. Too easy for it to go wrong when vul.
I may open it 3c in third seat, as opps may have slam, but would be ready to apologise if it goes wrong.

[pbleighton]

NV, every day of the week, with gusto. In the third seat NV, I open 4C.

Vulnerable, only in the third seat, and that's a stretch.

Peter

[inquiry]

             NO

[mr1303]

If I have 2NT as a bad pre-empt, I open it. Otherwise no.

When I open 2NT, my partner knows not to bid 3NT unless he/she has 9 tricks in her own hand

I've a partner who's done it on Jxxxxx and out, at all vul.

[Flame]

Why do you want to bid 3c ? its seems like you know you shouldnt bid it , so why would you ?
You dont have the strengh , you dont have the lengh, you dont have the partner approval, so why ?

[bearmum]

NO

[MickyB]

mr1303, on Oct 15 2004, 01:02 PM, said:

If I have 2NT as a bad pre-empt, I open it. Otherwise no.

When I open 2NT, my partner knows not to bid 3NT unless he/she has 9 tricks in her own hand

I've a partner who's done it on Jxxxxx and out, at all vul.

Hm, problem is, the 2N opening gives them more chances to get us.

And who is this partner you refer to? I'm sure that the only time I've done it on J high, it was JT9xxxXX which I think is slightly different

[joker_gib]

mr1303, on Oct 15 2004, 07:02 AM, said:

If I have 2NT as a bad pre-empt, I open it.

I don't like to tell the opps that my preempts are bad

[mr1303]

The reason that I play bad pre-empts through 2NT is that it allows partner to judge well when to bid 3NT, and when to shut up. If I have to have AKxxxxx and an outside K every time I pre-empt, the frequency of them is greatly reduced.

As for the length, 6 cards is plenty of length for a club pre-empt.

By the way Mike, Angela Pullen ws the person who pre-empted on that. Played in 7D and made it after the auction 2NT (P) 7C-pass/correct (P) 7D when opps didn't cash their ace at trick 1.

[whereagles]

Well, despite all vuln, I decided to open 3C. For it was the good offense, zero defense (or even less, lol), spade singleton and being 1st seat. Against was going for a number and that pard might take it too seriously. Since this particular pard wouldn't do the latter, I decided it was worth a shot.

Full hand was

Scoring: MP

---

At table it went

Me LHO pd RHO
3C (dbl) p (4H)
all pass

declarer went one down after a spade lead.

Not that this shows anything, but this time it did indeed make life very difficult for the opponents, who would probably have reached the cold 3NT otherwise. Even if pard raises to 4C, it is hard for E/W to double and find the trump lead on top of it.

[pbleighton]

"Well, despite all vuln, I decided to open 3C. For it was the good offense, zero defense (or even less, lol), spade singleton and being 1st seat. Against was going for a number and that pard might take it too seriously."

When I first started preempting very aggressively I did so vul as well. I found the real problem doing it vul was not going for a number doubled, but -200 or -300 to stop a part score. NV it's still risky, and you can self-preempt, get doubled, or get pd too excited, but the additional risk vul was too much.

Nonetheless, I have some sympathy for your bid, though I wouldn't do it.

Peter

[Free]

NO, wouldn't open this when V! It's pure luck your partner has the perfect hand for you, otherwise you get Doubled -2 or -3 for a bottom...