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Takeout doubles are for takeout Now celebrating the 20000th Episode

#1 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-February-21, 08:00


"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
    -- Bertrand Russell
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#2 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2012-February-21, 08:32

Hehe. Some would bid 4S with West - but not GiB who knows that North will erroneously pass for a good score? :D

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#3 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2012-February-21, 09:24

Funny subtitle. And all too true.
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#4 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-February-21, 11:00

Good job by the North Robot. He saved the partnership from the -800 it deserved. Or, perhaps the colors are posted differently from the hand and N/S were headed for a better result.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#5 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2012-February-21, 11:05

What's so bad about south's X? Correct shape, correct point count... Now if West had bid 4S like most people would, and then North had bid on and that had gone for 800, I would understand.

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#6 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-February-21, 11:10

View Postahydra, on 2012-February-21, 11:05, said:

What's so bad about south's X? Correct shape, correct point count... Now if West had bid 4S like most people would, and then North had bid on and that had gone for 800, I would understand.

ahydra

4H would be 800. "Bad" is not a term I am willing to use in judgement debates; some people don't think a rather normal 1-bid with no special shape is enough to suggest the 4-level. They would have accidentally been right on this hand.
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#7 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2012-February-21, 12:49

View Postahydra, on 2012-February-21, 11:05, said:

What's so bad about south's X? Correct shape, correct point count... Now if West had bid 4S like most people would, and then North had bid on and that had gone for 800, I would understand.

ahydra

A takeout double in direct seat over a preempt should be sound. It should have perfect shape with normal high card values OR extra high card values OR both. This hand is a marginal takeout double of an opening 1♠ bid. I would not double a 3♠ opening on these cards.

Having said that, the conversion of the takeout double to penalties by passing out 3♠x is just terrible.
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#8 User is offline   jamegumb 

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Posted 2012-February-21, 13:05

Would either Robot double 4H? And does West alone have enough to double it? Partner presumably could be much weaker, and North/South could have much better shape.
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#9 User is offline   AyunuS 

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Posted 2012-February-25, 01:16

Probably neither robot would double 4H as neither has all that much strength, and even their high trump cards they don't really value as much as most players would when considering if they should double. You'd probably be okay on 4H. Anyway, the passing of the double with that kind of hand is pretty much a known feature of GIB, but I agree that I wish it would bid something more often with that kind of hand.
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#10 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2012-February-25, 21:08

Piling on... South doesn't have what he showed, but that's not the point here in the GIB forum... http://tinyurl.com/7hnx3wg
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#11 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-February-26, 00:13

I don't understand the apologists for that hopeless double who say that East might not double in return for penalty.

Robot or not, at these colors a double by East would be good Bridge. We get to penalize the opponents' joke calls. East didn't raise 3S to four; do we think he failed to take that reasonable action because he was going to subside peacefully?

South's no-win double deserved a worse fate than minus 630. It was no-win, because his partner could balance with any hand when game is remotely a good thing; and he lost the opportunity to defend 3S if the East robot made a close judgement to pass instead of raise.
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#12 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-February-26, 08:24

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-February-26, 00:13, said:

It was no-win, because his partner could balance with any hand when game is remotely a good thing;


Of course, and I would not double opposite a human, but the fact is that GIB is not very good at knowing when to balance, so I double somewhat more aggressively in direct seat playing with GIB. I did not open this thread to discuss that, however.

What I truly don't understand are the apologists for North's pass...
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
    -- Bertrand Russell
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#13 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-February-26, 10:34

View Postmgoetze, on 2012-February-26, 08:24, said:

What I truly don't understand are the apologists for North's pass...

The North Bot somehow fielded the body language (botty language?) of the other two bots, and chose the least minus avaiable. :rolleyes:

Being a BOT, he wouldn't care if we hurt his feelings on these fora by describing his pass as idiotic. He was purely acting in South's best interests.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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