[sceptic]

Hi, I bid and played this hand in 4spades making +2

I looked at the other tables results and I am curious what system was used to get to 7 spade contract making

and also the 6 spade contract.

Also did I do anything wrong to only reach game

Scoring: IMP

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West North East South

 Pass  Pass  1♠    Pass
 2♠    Pass  4♠    Pass
 Pass  Pass  

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 Pass  Pass  1♣    Pass
 1NT   Pass  4NT   Pass
 5♦    Pass  7♠    Pass
 Pass  Pass  

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 Pass  Pass  2♣    Pass
 2♦    Pass  2♠    Pass
 4NT   Pass  5♣    Pass
 6♠    Pass  Pass  Pass
 

[Flame]

The first sequence is oviously made by non bridgers, just a stupid bid with no logic.
The second, is a bit better but still far from good bridge.
I wouldnt open a normal 2c with this hand, but i might open something that show 8 playing tricks ,like a strong 2 if i have it in my system. After strong two , responder can make a move to invite slam, but no more then that(bid 3sp not 4nt like in the example)
After 1 spade, i would bid 2sp , now opener can look for a perfect hand that make slam, it wouldnt be a mistake to make a try, but i would just bid 4sp, bridge imo is not about special slams, in the long run i will succed more by just bidding as you did.
BTW how did you play it ? There is only one right play here.
I asked how did you play before i saw the hands, and after i see them , i see that my plan isnt possible , so my question is how did you plan to play, not how did you play.

This post has been edited by Flame: 2004-October-17, 07:20

[Fluffy]

Flame mate, coming to Billie´s to insult their users is not the proper use of the forum I think.

I think I would had bid the same way as first auction scoring 710 when the ♥Q falls.

Alternativelly a trial bid is possible if I feel optimistic, it would be this way:

1♠-2♠
3♦*-3♥
4♣-4♥
...

3♦ is a natural (fake) game try with lond ♦ suposed, after 3♥ bidding 4♣ shows it is really looking for slam.

It lands probably on 6♠, 6♠ is not a faboulous contract, 7♠ is very lucky one.

[Flame]

Fluffy, on Oct 17 2004, 08:43 AM, said:

Flame mate, coming to Billie´s to insult their users is not the proper use of the forum I think.

Didnt mean to, my intention was to tell scpetic that he shouldnt learn from such bids.

[Laird]

Hello Steve .... an interesting question which does not seem to have been answered so far .... what system was used to reach the 7 s and also the 6 spades.

I suspect Polish club for the 7s .... regarding the other not sure ... Hope some expert will eventually answer the question

[inquiry]

Well, you know I am opinionate....So I will give mine. Bridge wasn't played here, and you will not learn much from studying the given auctions. Of the three, the dislike the least is auction number 1 (which ended in 4S). That one was closest to defendable.

Scoring: IMP

---

AUCTION ONE
West North East South

Pass Pass 1♠ Pass
2♠ Pass 4♠ Pass
Pass Pass

1S = a typical maximum 1S opening bid.
2S = 2/1 "constructive raise"
4S = burying head in ths sand a little bit. This is an underbid, but not horrible underbid.

I would make two slam tries with the EAST hand starting with 3♣. Partner will id 3♥ and I will try 4♦, showing 3♣ as a cue-bid. Bidding more depends upon WEST, If he bids 4♠ end of investigation. If he bids 5♠ I will bid six, if he bids 4♥ mild slam try, I think we are there. I think gettng to 4♠ isn't so bad here, I just think you have to make at least ONE Try for slam, if not two.. REMEMBER your partner 2S bid was limited and descptive, so 4S is NEVER A SLAM TRY, it is a signoff.....no matter how strong it sounds.

AUCTION TWO...
West North East South
Pass Pass 1♣ Pass
1NT Pass 4NT Pass
5♦ Pass 7♠ Pass
Pass Pass

This is not seroius bridge, this is probably not even real bridge. No doubt 1♣ was precision or similar, and 1NT looks like blanced 8 to something. 4NT should be quantative asking for slam if on "top". IF this is precision, I suspect balanced 9 with 4333 is minimum, not max. West responds he has one ace and EAST bids a GRAND SLAM in spades. The auction is not real, makes no sense in any bridge sense. Either EAST needed a huge swing immediately and was taking a flyer, or is an absolute beginner who gets over excited when seeing a moderately good hand, or something evil was going on. DO NOT EMULATE this bidding...

West North East South
Pass Pass 2♣ Pass
2♦ Pass 2♠ Pass
4NT Pass 5♣ Pass
6♠ Pass Pass Pass

OK here EAST thinks his hand is worth a strong opening two bid, despite his only 18 hcp. I happen to agree with this evaluation IF YOU PLAY 2H response to 2C as instant double negative with no trick. So you can get out in 2H or 2S with hands like this. 2♦ was waiting, and 2♠ was a spade suit (lets hope it can'[t be 4144 hand pattern... because WEST takes the bull by the horns and forces to 6♠ without further to do. I think WEST's bidding here is also very bad. Assume EAST had a 22 point hand with 5 spapdes and stiff heart. You are in a 31 point slam. Now, after a 2♣ openign bid, I am thinking SLAM with WEST, but I am not going to FORCE to slam.

A typical 2/1 auction might be (opponents passing)

1S-2S-3C-3H-4D-4H-4NT-5D-5H-5S-6S-all pass

A typical 2/1 auction with ACOL two bids in majors allowed in 2C
2C-2D-2S-3S-4N-5D-6S <<--- 3S shows 2.5+ tricks for spades, with 0 you would bid 2H not 2D, with 1 or 2 you would jump to 4S over 2S.

[sceptic]

flame, I opened 1 spade pard who I had never seen before bid 2 spade so I bid 4 spade, not how I would have bid with my reg p

[cherdano]

I think at matchpoints my auction would be 1♠-2♠-4♠, as pointing out the heart lead may well give away one or two overtricks. At IMPs, I agree with Ben. (Not sure though whether the hand is worth a 2nd slam try if partner signs off with 3♠ over 3♣.)

Arend

[cherdano]

sceptic, on Oct 17 2004, 02:27 PM, said:

flame, I opened 1 spade pard who I had never seen before bid 2 spade so I bid 4 spade, not how I would have bid with my reg p

Sceptic, I think Flame was talking about the auction starting with 1♣. Not everyone would bid like in your auction (I would in MPs), but it's certainly reasonable bridge.

Arend

[Flame]

sceptic, on Oct 17 2004, 09:27 AM, said:

flame, I opened 1 spade pard who I had never seen before bid 2 spade so I bid 4 spade, not how I would have bid with my reg p

I ment to one reahced 7, its just make no sense at all.
You 1s-2s-4s is ok by me, and maybe i would take it too.

[jtfanclub]

I like opening that hand 2♣. If that isn't 8 1/2 tricks, what is?

[bearmum]

QUOTE=sceptic,Oct 18 2004, 01:57 AM]


[font=Courier]

Scoring: IMP

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[/QUOTE]
OK playing Precision with my husband WE would probably got to 6♠ via
following auction

1♣ 16+
1NT 8-11 NO 5 card suit OR singleton
2♠ at least 5♠
3♠ agreeing ♠ as trumps
4♣ A or void ♣ (ie first round control)
4♥ A♥
5♦ A♦ and looking for a slam
5♥ K♥ ( showing what I have )
6♠

Am SURE we would NOT try for the GS though

[paulg]

Interesting odds for the hand.

There is a 58% chance of picking the spades for no loser so ....

On a club lead the slam is on the heart finesse WHEN the spades come in for zero losers (29%) and needs the heart finesse plus spade holder to have three hearts otherwise (which would be a bit less than 20%) so overall probably about 46%.

On a non-club lead, if the spades come in we can afford the heart finesse to fail so the odds become (58+0.5*42) = 80%

The grand slam needs spades and hearts to come in, so is 29%.

So no great disappointment if you miss the small slam as the club lead is more likely (as they have more honours in this suit).

p

[daswallow]

Even on a club lead, if spades come in it is cold (take AK ♥ then play J♥, pitch ♣, later pitch ♦ on 10♥. If spades don't come in we need heart finesse, so prob of making is still 80%?

[Stephen Tu]

It's not as simple as "spades come in = cold", etc. If spades 2-2, then it's cold, taking ruffing heart finesse. If spades 4-0 onside though you need heart finesse, since you can no longer take ruffing finesse after draw trumps. If SQ is singleton, the hearts still have to be layed out such that they can't say win HQ and return a heart for a ruff, stranding you with a diamond loser, or other such bad things involving heart ruffs.

If spade 3-1, Q not dropping, you need heart finesse & spade holder to have 2 hearts.

[nikos59]

As to the third auction, where East opened 2C, it might well
be French standard. There, the game forcing bid is 2D,
and they use 2C to show an old strong two. I would open the
East hand a French 2C, but in Sayc I would open 1S. I do not
think the East hand is worth a 2/1 2C or a Sayc 2C.

To the original poster:
Let's not be result merchants, if this is the most obvious slam
you'll miss in your career, you'll become world
champion.