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5 hearts, 6 diamonds

Poll: 5 hearts, 6 diamonds (44 member(s) have cast votes)

How do you handle these hands, presuming that you are not strong enough to reverse?

  1. Open 1H then bid D (17 votes [38.64%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 38.64%

  2. Open 1D then rebid D (3 votes [6.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.82%

  3. Open 1H unless H are weak and D are strong (11 votes [25.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  4. Open 1D then bid H and don't worry about not having extras (8 votes [18.18%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 18.18%

  5. Other (5 votes [11.36%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.36%

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#1 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-December-12, 16:16

Assume 1561 shape. Thanks.
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#2 User is offline   Valardent 

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Posted 2011-December-12, 16:49

View PostBbradley62, on 2011-December-12, 16:16, said:

Assume 1561 shape. Thanks.


Unless the qualities of the 2 suits are very unbalanced (in which case I'll open the best one reevaluating the hand as a 55 or 46), I mostly follow this simple rule (good intermediates do have an influence):

If 4 (or less) losers, I open 1 and reverse to 2 (followed by 3 or 4)
x AK9xx KQ109xx x (extreme minimum for a reverse)

If 5 (or more) losers, I open 1 and rebid 2
Q AKJxx AJxxxx x (extreme maximum for no reverse)


Even though a 1 opening followed by 3 can be played as showing a x56x with 12-15, I much prefer to play 3 as a mini-max splinter on a 1 response for slam precision purpose, frequency matters and also because natural slamish continuations after showing a 6-5 (12-15) at the 3rd level are frequently too awkward to cope with.
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#3 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-December-12, 17:21

If it is given that I'm too weak to reverse, then I will not reverse, but instead bid 1H then 2D. However, I suspect my real answer would be somewhere between 1 and 4 - if we went for specific hands there would be some that I stretch to show my 6-5 that are perhaps considered traditionally to be too weak for a reverse.
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#4 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-December-12, 18:03

I really don't see the point of the numerous posts of this nature. I will always open 1M and then bid the m if I don't have values to reverse. Others will always open the longer suit. Nothing I post will convince them to do otherwise and nothing they post willl convince me to do otherwise, so what is the point of the thread?
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#5 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-December-12, 18:22

View Postthe hog, on 2011-December-12, 18:03, said:

Nothing I post will convince them to do otherwise and nothing they post willl convince me to do otherwise, so what is the point of the thread?

This is a poll, so it should not be surprising that the point is try to determine how "most players" handle this situation.
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#6 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-December-12, 18:47

But without a specific hand, the question really doesn't get answered. There are some minimum openers with 5-6 in the reds where posters/pollees won't care if the heart suit is shown, unless partner can bid them. They would rebid 2D after opening 1D.

The Hog's point is valid, and his policy has validity; but I bet there would be an exception along the way.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#7 User is offline   chasetb 

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Posted 2011-December-12, 19:09

I generally bid 5-card Majors, 7-card minors. I open all 5-6 hands 1 unless the suit is so weak and Diamonds are so strong that I would rather treat it as a 4-6 hand. By weak, I mean 8 high (yes, I have opened A 9xxxx AQxxxx K 1)
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#8 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-December-12, 19:17

View Postaguahombre, on 2011-December-12, 18:47, said:

But without a specific hand, the question really doesn't get answered.
So far, I'm very pleased with how well the question is getting answered. I didn't give a hand because I wanted to be able to stipulate "strong enough to open but not to reverse" without debating the definition of that range.
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#9 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-December-12, 19:17

open 1, compete to 5 next normally
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#10 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2011-December-12, 20:00

Does GIB get a vote?

GIB opens 1 and rebids 1NT over 1!!!
Wayne Burrows

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#11 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-December-12, 20:07

That is why we're having this conversation.
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#12 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2011-December-12, 21:09

View Postaguahombre, on 2011-December-12, 18:47, said:

But without a specific hand, the question really doesn't get answered. There are some minimum openers with 5-6 in the reds where posters/pollees won't care if the heart suit is shown, unless partner can bid them. They would rebid 2D after opening 1D.

The Hog's point is valid, and his policy has validity; but I bet there would be an exception along the way.

Isn't that why one of the choices mentioned a poor quality hearts and good diamonds?

We're trying to get an idea what criteria people use to make this decision, so we can put it into GIB's bidding rules.

#13 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-December-12, 21:14

View Postbarmar, on 2011-December-12, 21:09, said:

Isn't that why one of the choices mentioned a poor quality hearts and good diamonds?

We're trying to get an idea what criteria people use to make this decision, so we can put it into GIB's bidding rules.

Yes, and No. The OP didn't quite get to never mentioning the heart suit at all, and that was my angle.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#14 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-December-12, 21:37

View Postaguahombre, on 2011-December-12, 21:14, said:

The OP didn't quite get to never mentioning the heart suit at all, and that was my angle.

I thought the second choice in the poll covered that.
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#15 User is offline   dickiegera 

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Posted 2011-December-12, 21:47

If I have 10 pts all in the red suits something like

x,KQxxx,KQxxxx,x or x,AJxxx,AJxxxx,x I will open 1 and go from there.
If opportunity to bid later I will do so.

With more pts I would reverse If my pts are in red suits
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#16 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-December-12, 22:15

View PostBbradley62, on 2011-December-12, 18:22, said:

This is a poll, so it should not be surprising that the point is try to determine how "most players" handle this situation.


Yes, but a question on this topic seems to surface every 2 weeks or so.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#17 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-December-13, 01:21

View PostBbradley62, on 2011-December-12, 18:22, said:

This is a poll, so it should not be surprising that the point is try to determine how "most players" handle this situation.


What "most players" do isn't necessarily the right thing. For instance, before Colombus most people believed the Earth was flat.

So you should look at the results with skepticism.
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#18 User is offline   mich-b 

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Posted 2011-December-13, 01:26

With 12-13 concentrated in my 2 suits, we open 1, reverse to 2 and proceed with 3 which shows a nice , but not great 6-5 and is non forcing.
With a stronger 6-5 we bid 1->2->4.

With a weaker hand (or with values in my singletons) I usually open 1 and rebid 2 , unless my s are very weak , when I might just bid 1->2.
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#19 User is offline   rduran1216 

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Posted 2011-December-13, 01:52

bridge is a partnership game. If you open 1H and compete later high up in diamonds, partner is supposed to correct to your first suit if he's 1-2 or 2-3, and u get into horrible contracts. This is why you open 1D.
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#20 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-December-13, 03:50

View PostBbradley62, on 2011-December-12, 18:22, said:

This is a poll, so it should not be surprising that the point is try to determine how "most players" handle this situation.

You sound like you've created the first poll on this subject. Like Hog I don't see the point in asking this over and over again.
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