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New NAMYATS idea

#1 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2004-October-15, 04:48

In original NAMYATS: 3N shows a 4 of a minor preempt and 4 / 4 are strong 4 / 4 openers.
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I came across a new idea for NAMYATS recently. I haven't confirmed it, but I hear it was developed by Grant Baze.

3N opening shows the 4 of a major NAMYATS opening. 4 / 4 go back to their old-fashioned meanings.

I see several advantages, and have implemented it to my partnership:

1. Slam tries over the 3N opening (showing the minor preempt) are just about impossible. Now you can kickback or launch asking bids easier.

2. We now have a little more room so we can add in some natural calls and some toys to investigate major slams (these are my tweakings):

4 asks opener to transfer into the major as a signoff (like some do over multi 2). However, responder can still launch RKC if he 'fits' opener's major. Similarly, a pull to a new suit instead of accepting the transfer is EKCB.

4 asks opener to bid the suit, but now key card and asking bids apply.

A direct 4 / 4 / 5 / 5 are natural and to play ( I don't know why you'd want to though, maybe these could just be cue bids. You decide). Or, you may just want 4 as pass / correct, to take away the lead directors.

The only disadvantage I see is responder doesn't immediately know opener's major. I don't think thats a huge deal, unless RHO butts in with 5 of a minor.

(added later): One of the coolest things about this is that responder can choose which hand plays the contract as well.
"Phil" on BBO
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#2 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2004-October-15, 04:55

One of the ideas of the 3NT minor opener was to allow responder's pass. That's gone here. Also, even opposite a namyats, major suit slams are rare, so I'm not sure you need so much gadgetry there.
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#3 User is offline   joker_gib 

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Posted 2004-October-15, 06:33

whereagles, on Oct 15 2004, 05:55 AM, said:

One of the ideas of the 3NT minor opener was to allow responder's pass.

I don't agree with that !

I also use 3NT as a 4 level preempt in minor but the goal is not to allow a pass by partner because the suit is usually bad ! With a constructive minor preempt that can lead to 3NT I open 3 of the minor !

I really find the idea of Phil interesting ! Tx :) :unsure:

Alain
Alain
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#4 User is offline   Flame 

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Posted 2004-October-15, 15:22

This is one of those things that i think its a waste of time to deal with, its rare and its rare that it will make a different, the most importent factor here is to make it easy on your memory.
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#5 User is offline   mikestar 

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Posted 2004-October-15, 16:14

whereagles, on Oct 15 2004, 10:55 AM, said:

One of the ideas of the 3NT minor opener was to allow responder's pass. That's gone here. Also, even opposite a namyats, major suit slams are rare, so I'm not sure you need so much gadgetry there.

True. But responder doesn't have the values to try a psss very ofter--and most of the time he will be wrongsiding the contract when he does have the values (The same defect as Gambling 3N with a solid minor.)

Alos 4C/4D natural are much harder to defend than 3N=minor 4 bid.
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#6 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2004-October-16, 10:01

Flame, on Oct 15 2004, 01:22 PM, said:

This is one of those things that i think its a waste of time to deal with, its rare and its rare that it will make a different, the most importent factor here is to make it easy on your memory.

To Whereeagles as well.

With a hand promising 8 1/2 tricks, I think that a major suit slam is VERY likely. Thats one of the ideas of NAMYATS in the first place, to show a good 4 of amajor opening so that responder can gauge slam better.

To Flame. If it helps, you can add these responses to your Goren 'bidding wheel' if it helps your memory. This can be such a confusing game to play sometimes, all those different point count requirements! Maybe we all stop playing bridge and start cross-stitch. :D :)
"Phil" on BBO
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#7 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 04:29

I thought 3NT had to show a solid minor suit (or at least "playing strength equal to a king less than an average hand"), otherwise it would be a BSC.
When did pass become a 4-letter word? --- WinstonM
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#8 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 08:02

pclayton, on Oct 16 2004, 05:01 PM, said:

I think that a major suit slam is VERY likely. Thats one of the ideas of NAMYATS in the first place, to show a good 4 of amajor opening so that responder can gauge slam better.

After 10 years playing namyats, I played in slam opposite a 4C/D opener a grand total of 0 times. Zero.

But hey, maybe my luck sucks :)
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#9 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 08:05

helene_t, on Oct 17 2004, 01:29 PM, said:

I thought 3NT had to show a solid minor suit (or at least "playing strength equal to a king less than an average hand"), otherwise it would be a BSC.

A 3N preempt that shows a long broken minor is willing to contract at the 4 level...
Sure sounds like playing strength equal to a King less than an average hand to me...
Alderaan delenda est
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#10 User is offline   mikestar 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 09:31

helene_t, on Oct 17 2004, 10:29 AM, said:

I thought 3NT had to show a solid minor suit (or at least "playing strength equal to a king less than an average hand"), otherwise it would be a BSC.

No. Per WBF, the rule that a weak opening that does not show 4 cards in a known suit is brown sticker only applies thru 3S. (By the way 3N=minor 4 bid would be brown sticker if the rule applied at this level.)

In ACBL land, 3N showing an unspecifed major is not GCC legal unless the suit is solid. It is Mid Chart legal.
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#11 User is offline   jdulmage 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 10:42

I played NAMYATS with a previous long time partner of mine. Played it for about 3 years, it came up twice.

Not worth worrying about. Nice convention, not as the other guy said, make it easy on your memory.
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#12 User is offline   luke warm 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 12:51

roland's site has been down for awhile, but he has his version on it.. if my memory isn't faulty, 3C is gambling 3nt in any suit, 3nt is minor preempt (4c pass or correct), 4c/d namyats w/ 8 tricks, 4h/s regular major preempt...

i like this version fine... not sure how often it comes up, but not sure it really matters unless better uses for those bids can be found... only downside i see is losing natural 3c preempt
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#13 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 16:48

"I came across a new idea for NAMYATS recently. I haven't confirmed it, but I hear it was developed by Grant Baze. "

Don't think it was invented by Grant Baze. I can remember this being played over 20 years ago by a top mixed pair here.

Their continuations were 4C to ask for a singleton and 4D to transfer into the Major. 4H/S were asking bids in that suit.
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