[gordontd]

Cascade, on 2011-November-25, 05:06, said:

Occasionally there can be issues with legibility. However the relevant regulations specify the form of the calls and adherence to the designated form diminishes the potential for problems with legibility.

I understood there are two different forms in use to indicate the final pass of an auction. Is that the case?

[barmar]

gordontd, on 2011-November-25, 05:15, said:

I understood there are two different forms in use to indicate the final pass of an auction. Is that the case?

But since the last call in an auction can never be anything other than Pass, this can't lead to an ambiguous contract. Either the last non-Pass call contained a denomination or it was Double.

Legibility can cause some other problems, I admit. H and N can look similar sometimes, which is why I would recommend writing NT instead of just N. And when I write "1", I put a hook at the top so it doesn't look like "l", but this sometimes makes it look like "7". I've never used written bidding, but I suspect that this is rarely a problem -- if you saw an opening bid that looked like a 7, I'll bet you'd ask for confirmation.

[Fluffy]

about last pass... its very likelly that the bidding went something like

North 3♠
East pass
South 4♠
West gathers all his cards
North pass and gathers all his bids to the bidding box
East doubles, but south also gathers the bids to the bidding boxes before that.

Nobody passes after this. Even through south, west and north have to.

[Cascade]

gordontd, on 2011-November-25, 05:15, said:

I understood there are two different forms in use to indicate the final pass of an auction. Is that the case?

These are from the New Zealand written bidding regulations:

4. Bidding shall proceed with designated marks as follows:
4.1. A diagonal line (/) = pass
4.2. A "C" = clubs
4.3. A "D" = diamonds
4.4. An "H" = hearts
4.5. An "S" = spades
4.6. An "NT" = no trumps
4.7. An "X" = double
4.8. An "XX" = redouble
4.9. A double line (//) indicates that the bidding is ended (e.g. in Figure 2,
West passed, North opened one spade, East doubled, South passed,
West bid one no trump, and all passed).
4.10. Obviously, numerals are used ("1" rather than "one" etc.).
4.11. Alerts: The Player's partner should immediately circle any bid that
requires an alert.
4.12. Delayed alerts: Delayed alerts should be indicated by declarer or
dummy after the auction is finished but before the opening lead is
made with a small plus sign (+) in one corner of the appropriate
square of the bidding pad.

[cloa513]

Cascade, on 2011-November-26, 14:05, said:

These are from the New Zealand written bidding regulations:

4. Bidding shall proceed with designated marks as follows:
4.1. A diagonal line (/) = pass
4.2. A "C" = clubs
4.3. A "D" = diamonds
4.4. An "H" = hearts
4.5. An "S" = spades
4.6. An "NT" = no trumps
4.7. An "X" = double
4.8. An "XX" = redouble
4.9. A double line (//) indicates that the bidding is ended (e.g. in Figure 2,
West passed, North opened one spade, East doubled, South passed,
West bid one no trump, and all passed).
4.10. Obviously, numerals are used ("1" rather than "one" etc.).
4.11. Alerts: The Player's partner should immediately circle any bid that
requires an alert.
4.12. Delayed alerts: Delayed alerts should be indicated by declarer or
dummy after the auction is finished but before the opening lead is
made with a small plus sign (+) in one corner of the appropriate
square of the bidding pad.

Trouble is sometimes people's writing style makes
a C looks a bit like an S and its possible to screw up other marks too.

[Fluffy]

and when you throw to the mix non english people who use "C" as cours, , cuori, corazones or copas (IE. Hearts) on their own country. As well as S ot ST for no trump, Then the mess is guaranteed.

[Vampyr]

Cascade, on 2011-November-26, 14:05, said:

4.11. Alerts: The Player's partner should immediately circle any bid that
requires an alert.

How is the partner supposed to see the paper across the table and read the upside-down bid?

Written bidding sounds awful. Uses a lot of trees too.

[sfi]

Vampyr, on 2011-November-27, 08:50, said:

How is the partner supposed to see the paper across the table and read the upside-down bid?

Quite easily, actually - it is a skill that people manage to master in the first auction. And if a bid is unclear someone will always ask.

The only negative really is the question of how many trees it uses. Apart from that it is fine.

[Cascade]

Vampyr, on 2011-November-27, 08:50, said:

Uses a lot of trees too.

I imagine the auctions per tree ratio is extremely high.

[gordontd]

Vampyr, on 2011-November-27, 08:50, said:

How is the partner supposed to see the paper across the table and read the upside-down bid?

It's probably quite like reading the Bridgemate upside-down, when you turn it so that the rest of the table can see it.

[aguahombre]

Vampyr, on 2011-November-27, 08:50, said:

How is the partner supposed to see the paper across the table and read the upside-down bid?

gordontd, on 2011-November-28, 12:21, said:

It's probably quite like reading the Bridgemate upside-down, when you turn it so that the rest of the table can see it.

With a difference. No matter which way you turn something handwritten, it still might not be legible.

[bluejak]

Having played a lot with bidding boxes and some with written bidding I think written bidding is excellent though it does have one or two downsides. I think bidding boxes are excellent though they do have one or two downsides. So?

[Cascade]

aguahombre, on 2011-November-28, 12:44, said:

With a difference. No matter which way you turn something handwritten, it still might not be legible.

In practice I have seldom had a problem with illegible written bidding.

Occasionally there has been a problem that has been cleared up with a question.

Most of the problems occur with players that don't use the proper form - capital letters. As a director there was once a problem with a player who wrote "d" for diamonds and the upstroke coincided with the printed square so it looked like a "c". I can't remember how I resolved that. I once I had a similar problem that didnt involve capitals as a player with a "3" where a straight top of the number coincided with the printed square and I mistook the bid for "5". I defended 5D down two only to find that the contract was 3D=.

Occasionally there is a problem with handwriting. I have a partner who scrawls "NT" as one mess that sometimes could be mistaken for an "H" although this hasnt caused any problems where an opponent has been mistaken about the bid made (other than needing to clarify).

In general it is not too difficult even for the most untidy hand writing to write the single characters "C" "D" "H" "S" "N" "T" and the numerals "1" through "7" in an unambigous way.

[Cascade]

bluejak, on 2011-November-28, 14:34, said:

Having played a lot with bidding boxes and some with written bidding I think written bidding is excellent though it does have one or two downsides. I think bidding boxes are excellent though they do have one or two downsides. So?

The same for me only in reverse.

Another hidden advantage of written bidding is that we have several members of the club who are keen to learn who will collect the bidding sheets and take them home so that they can easily remember the bidding later.

[blackshoe]

How often are there fights over who gets to take the bidding slips home?

[Cascade]

blackshoe, on 2011-November-28, 16:30, said:

How often are there fights over who gets to take the bidding slips home?

Interestingly it is something i have thought about but never observed

[Vampyr]

gordontd, on 2011-November-28, 12:21, said:

It's probably quite like reading the Bridgemate upside-down, when you turn it so that the rest of the table can see it.

I guess. I just feel that I wouldn't be able to read something even rightside-up if it is in front of my partner, all the way across the table.

[pwg7]

Vampyr, on 2011-December-02, 23:56, said:

I guess. I just feel that I wouldn't be able to read something even rightside-up if it is in front of my partner, all the way across the table.

The bidding pad is normally in the centre of the table, and I've not yet found players who have difficulty reading it (though when player write badly, one sometimes asks to be sure of the bid). Players are encouraged to write clearly and fill the space (that also helps with the "small x" vs "large X" problem). It's not perfect, but generally, as noted by others, no worse than other methods.

[Vampyr]

pwg7, on 2011-December-03, 01:38, said:

The bidding pad is normally in the centre of the table

Where is the board?

[bluejak]

Underneath the bidding pad.