Help
My partner and I have been playing reverse 2-way drury for a while now, but we decided to see if we could make it any better. This is what we came up with. Please critique and comment...
P-1M
.....2C: Limit Raise with 3 or 4 trump
..........2D: Full opener, asks for more info
...............2M: 3 trump, no shortness
....................OM/3C/3D: full opener, short in OM/C/D
.........................3M: Responder's hand does not fit well with opener's shortness
.........................4M: Responder's hand fits well with opener's shortness
................3M: 4 trump, no shortness, not 4333 shape
................2NT: 4 trump, 4333 shape
................2OM/3C/3D: 3 trump, shortness in OM/C/D
................3OM/4C/4D: 4 trump, shortness in OM/C/D
..........2M: substandard opening, sign off (can be raised to 3 by hand with 4 trump)
..........4M: full opener, but no slam interest
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Modified drury
#1
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Posted 2011-December-10, 08:07
#2
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Posted 2011-December-10, 10:11
My worries are that the 3 card support with a shortage is effectively forced to 3M opposite a 12 count opener, and 4 card support with a shortage is forced to 4M. OK if the shortage is advantageous to opener, but it could be detrimental.
Even ignoring this, you are forcing to the 3 or 4 level with 3 or 4 card support, when either party has a shortage, which implies that the strength needed for the 2C bid is pretty strong. You say "Limit raise", and I guess this means maybe 10/11 HCP. And even with that, I do not necessarily fancy 3M on an 8 card fit 22 count, or 4M on a 9 card fit 22 count. Opener having a shortage does not necessarily mean more tricks as he is ruffing in the long hand.
I think it is more useful to have the space afforded by the 2C bid employed to allow a wider range of responder support strengths. A more normal reverse 2-way setup can have say a 4 card support 8-11 range, and still have room in some cases to show shortages as an invite.
The inability to show an 8/9 count responder 4 card support worries me, as this is tricky with a "possibly subnormal but maybe normal" opener. Perhaps you can add Pass 1M 2D as specifically this hand.
Even ignoring this, you are forcing to the 3 or 4 level with 3 or 4 card support, when either party has a shortage, which implies that the strength needed for the 2C bid is pretty strong. You say "Limit raise", and I guess this means maybe 10/11 HCP. And even with that, I do not necessarily fancy 3M on an 8 card fit 22 count, or 4M on a 9 card fit 22 count. Opener having a shortage does not necessarily mean more tricks as he is ruffing in the long hand.
I think it is more useful to have the space afforded by the 2C bid employed to allow a wider range of responder support strengths. A more normal reverse 2-way setup can have say a 4 card support 8-11 range, and still have room in some cases to show shortages as an invite.
The inability to show an 8/9 count responder 4 card support worries me, as this is tricky with a "possibly subnormal but maybe normal" opener. Perhaps you can add Pass 1M 2D as specifically this hand.
#3
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Posted 2011-December-10, 10:23
I'm not worried about being at the 3 level opposite a 3 card LR... isn't this the same as 1M-1NT(F)-2x-3M showing a 3 card LR in 2/1 or 1M-2x-2y-3M in Standard?
Also, when opener shows shortness, it's more of a slam try than a game try. It's a hand that would have bid game opposite a LR, but may have further aspirations if partner's values are working.
The only hands we are forced to the 4 level is when RESPONDER has shortness and a 4 card LR (10-11 HCP). Being in 4M with a 9 fit and shortness in the short trump hand seems like a fine place to be most of the time. I think it will help us find more thin games then cause us to go down in cold part scores.
Constructive 4 card support can be shown by a simple raise, followed by competing to the 3 level if necessary.
Also, when opener shows shortness, it's more of a slam try than a game try. It's a hand that would have bid game opposite a LR, but may have further aspirations if partner's values are working.
The only hands we are forced to the 4 level is when RESPONDER has shortness and a 4 card LR (10-11 HCP). Being in 4M with a 9 fit and shortness in the short trump hand seems like a fine place to be most of the time. I think it will help us find more thin games then cause us to go down in cold part scores.
Constructive 4 card support can be shown by a simple raise, followed by competing to the 3 level if necessary.
#4
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Posted 2011-December-10, 10:53
dcohio, on 2011-December-10, 10:23, said:
I'm not worried about being at the 3 level opposite a 3 card LR... isn't this the same as 1M-1NT(F)-2x-3M showing a 3 card LR in 2/1 or 1M-2x-2y-3M in Standard?
Yes, but for me this 3M is 11/12. (7-10 is an immediate 2M). As your LR is now 10/11 (a 12 point hand would have opened) this means you are at the 3M level a point lighter. More risky.
Quote
Constructive 4 card support can be shown by a simple raise, followed by competing to the 3 level if necessary.
I thought a 3 card support 10 count goes P 1M 2C? This means P 1M 2M is 3 card 7-9 or 6-9. As opener I would not invite without say a 17 count. But if it can also be 8/9 and 4 card support, we miss game.
Otherwise OK !
#5
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Posted 2011-December-10, 11:07
Do you play a weak two in ♦?
If so, you might just want to play 2M-1 as Drury raise (no need for a lot of science there), 1♠ - 2♦ as ♥ and 1M - 2♣ as natural.
If so, you might just want to play 2M-1 as Drury raise (no need for a lot of science there), 1♠ - 2♦ as ♥ and 1M - 2♣ as natural.
#6
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Posted 2011-December-10, 16:37
I've been using Hardy's point ranges and Bergen's rules for adjusting point count, so for me a limit raise is 9+ to 12-, and I don't open a bad 12.
Gerben's idea is interesting, but not legal in the ACBL under the GCC.
Mike Lawrence, in his new The Complete Guide to Passed Hand Bidding, 2nd Edition, proposes "Lawrence Drury", which is basically Reverse Drury with a few twists.
P-1M
2♣-2♦: full opening bid, may have slam interest, asks responder to describe his hand
2♥: artificial, minimum drury, usually 3 trumps, may be four with bad distribution and minimum points.
......2♠, having opened 1♥: F, usually natural, usually looking for the best game. Opener may have slam interest
......2♠, having opened 1♠: sign off.
......2NT: F, usually looking for the best game, may have slam interest.
......3m: F, natural game try, may have slam interest.
......3♥, having opened 1♥: natural game try, just asking responder's opinion. NF.
......3♥, having opened 1♠: F, natural game try, may have slam interest.
.......3♠, having opened 1♠: slam try, FG.
......3NT: choice of games.
......4m: splinter, slam try, FG.
......4♥, having opened 1♥: sign off.
......4♥, having opened 1♠: splinter, slam try, FG.
......4♠, having opened 1♠: sign off.
2♠: maximum balanced hand, 3 trumps.
......2NT: F, usually looking for the best game, may have slam interest.
......3m: F, natural game try, may have slam interest.
......3♥, having opened 1♥: sign off.
......3♥: F, natural game try, may have slam interest.
......3♠, having opened 1♥: splinter, slam try, FG.
......3♠, having opened 1♥: invitational to game.
......3NT: choice of games.
......4m: splinter, slam try, FG.
......4♥, having opened 1♥: sign off.
......4♥, having opened 1♠: splinter, slam try, FG.
2NT: four trumps, better than minimum, FG (if opener now bids below game, he shows slam interest)
......3m: long suit slam try.
......3♥ after opening 1♠: long suit slam try.
......3♠ after opening 1♥: splinter, slam try, FG
......3M: slam try, good trumps, FG.
......3NT: asks for control bidding, slam try, FG.
......4m: splinter, slam try, FG.
......4♥ after opening 1♠: splinter, slam try, FG.
......4M: sign off.
3♣/3♦/3♥: maximum drury hand, 3 card support, singleton in the suit bid, except if opener's suit is ♥, 3♥ shows a singleton ♠
P-1M
2♣-2NT: forcing, slam try, asking partner to do something intelligent.
............-2♠(over 1♥/3m: good suit, slam try.
............-3♠(over 1♥/4m: splinter, slam try.
............-3M: good trumps, slam try.
............-3NT: choice of games.
............-4M: sign off.
Gerben's idea is interesting, but not legal in the ACBL under the GCC.
Mike Lawrence, in his new The Complete Guide to Passed Hand Bidding, 2nd Edition, proposes "Lawrence Drury", which is basically Reverse Drury with a few twists.
P-1M
2♣-2♦: full opening bid, may have slam interest, asks responder to describe his hand
2♥: artificial, minimum drury, usually 3 trumps, may be four with bad distribution and minimum points.
......2♠, having opened 1♥: F, usually natural, usually looking for the best game. Opener may have slam interest
......2♠, having opened 1♠: sign off.
......2NT: F, usually looking for the best game, may have slam interest.
......3m: F, natural game try, may have slam interest.
......3♥, having opened 1♥: natural game try, just asking responder's opinion. NF.
......3♥, having opened 1♠: F, natural game try, may have slam interest.
.......3♠, having opened 1♠: slam try, FG.
......3NT: choice of games.
......4m: splinter, slam try, FG.
......4♥, having opened 1♥: sign off.
......4♥, having opened 1♠: splinter, slam try, FG.
......4♠, having opened 1♠: sign off.
2♠: maximum balanced hand, 3 trumps.
......2NT: F, usually looking for the best game, may have slam interest.
......3m: F, natural game try, may have slam interest.
......3♥, having opened 1♥: sign off.
......3♥: F, natural game try, may have slam interest.
......3♠, having opened 1♥: splinter, slam try, FG.
......3♠, having opened 1♥: invitational to game.
......3NT: choice of games.
......4m: splinter, slam try, FG.
......4♥, having opened 1♥: sign off.
......4♥, having opened 1♠: splinter, slam try, FG.
2NT: four trumps, better than minimum, FG (if opener now bids below game, he shows slam interest)
......3m: long suit slam try.
......3♥ after opening 1♠: long suit slam try.
......3♠ after opening 1♥: splinter, slam try, FG
......3M: slam try, good trumps, FG.
......3NT: asks for control bidding, slam try, FG.
......4m: splinter, slam try, FG.
......4♥ after opening 1♠: splinter, slam try, FG.
......4M: sign off.
3♣/3♦/3♥: maximum drury hand, 3 card support, singleton in the suit bid, except if opener's suit is ♥, 3♥ shows a singleton ♠
P-1M
2♣-2NT: forcing, slam try, asking partner to do something intelligent.
............-2♠(over 1♥/3m: good suit, slam try.
............-3♠(over 1♥/4m: splinter, slam try.
............-3M: good trumps, slam try.
............-3NT: choice of games.
............-4M: sign off.
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#7
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Posted 2011-December-12, 02:59
To add other options here, Marc Smith recommends using P - 1M - 2m as "natural with fit", thus avoiding some of the issues associated with Drury lead-directors.
Using 1M+1 as an "invitational or better" relay allows you to get Drury "for free" in all seats via 1H - 1S; 1NT - 2H and 1S - 1NT; 2C - 2S (= 3 card LR opposite min Opener without 4 in other major) or 1H - 1S; 2C - 2H and 1S - 1NT; 2D - 2S (= 3 card LR opposite Opener with 4+ in other major). This in turn makes opening light slightly safer than in a regular responding structure.
Using 1M+1 as an "invitational or better" relay allows you to get Drury "for free" in all seats via 1H - 1S; 1NT - 2H and 1S - 1NT; 2C - 2S (= 3 card LR opposite min Opener without 4 in other major) or 1H - 1S; 2C - 2H and 1S - 1NT; 2D - 2S (= 3 card LR opposite Opener with 4+ in other major). This in turn makes opening light slightly safer than in a regular responding structure.
(-: Zel :-)
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