[jtfanclub]

RHO opens 1D. I have 5 hearts and 5 clubs, and bid 2NT.

Score later gets adjusted because I didn't alert.

In the U.S., this isn't alertable, and I'm upset about that. I'm quite certain it shouldn't have been adjusted. HOWEVER, it's not why I called.

On other continents, is Unusual 2NT for two lower unbid alerted?

[inquiry]

Good rule of thumb for online bridge, alert pretty much everything.. with self-alerts that partner can't see, it is rather harmless....

Ben

[hrothgar]

inquiry, on Oct 12 2004, 11:49 PM, said:

Good rule of thumb for online bridge, alert pretty much everything.. with self-alerts that partner can't see, it is rather harmless....

Ben

Better yet, just alert EVERYTHING
you'll never get an alert wrong
better yet, the opponents will have no idea which of your bids actual deserve a real alert
win-win scenario

[mr1303]

In the UK, if you don't alert 2NT there, opps presume it shows 20-22 balanced, and bid accordingly. If partner doesn't also bid as though it shows 20-22 balanced (i.e. bids 4H with only 3 hearts) then you get an adjusted score.

Mind you over here stayman has to be alerted, although not strong jump overcalls, which, for what it's worth is one of my pet hates especially when it goes:

1S (3D) P P
X XX

= - lots.

[EricK]

inquiry, on Oct 12 2004, 08:49 PM, said:

Good rule of thumb for online bridge, alert pretty much everything.. with self-alerts that partner can't see, it is rather harmless....

Ben

Especially if you can write a very short explanation of the bid for the opponents.

Eric

[the hog]

"On other continents, is Unusual 2NT for two lower unbid alerted? "

Absolutely alertable in Australia, as it should be. (Incidentally so is Stayman).
I'm very surprised this is non alertable in the States. There are so many different 2 suiter overcalls available, how can I be expected to know what you play? Even more relevant, how can I be expected to know the possible ranges of the bid?

[bearmum]

jtfanclub, on Oct 13 2004, 09:43 AM, said:

RHO opens 1D. I have 5 hearts and 5 clubs, and bid 2NT.

Score later gets adjusted because I didn't alert.

In the U.S., this isn't alertable, and I'm upset about that.  I'm quite certain it shouldn't have been adjusted.  HOWEVER, it's not why I called.

On other continents, is Unusual 2NT for two lower unbid alerted?

As BBO is used by players from all over the world it is probably as well to alert the agreements you have with partner no matter if they are non alertable in the USA. Here in Australia STAYMAN is alertable ( I disagree with the rule BUT that IS the rule, and as such I do alert Stayman when playing here )
AS to the adjustment -- not being a director I'm not qualified to judge

[MickyB]

mr1303, on Oct 12 2004, 10:32 PM, said:

In the UK, if you don't alert 2NT there, opps presume it shows 20-22 balanced, and bid accordingly. If partner doesn't also bid as though it shows 20-22 balanced (i.e. bids 4H with only 3 hearts) then you get an adjusted score.

Mind you over here stayman has to be alerted, although not strong jump overcalls, which, for what it's worth is one of my pet hates especially when it goes:

1S (3D) P P
X XX

= - lots.

You get an adjusted score if the opps have been damaged, yes. Weak 2 opening bids are alertable in the EBU, strong and forcing ones are not; But no natural jump overcalls are alertable. I agree, it is very annoying!

IMO any non-standard agreement should be alerted and described immediately on BBO.

[pclayton]

Well in the states 90% play this as 2 lower unbid. 8% play this as the minors. The other informed 2% play it as something else.

What fries me about the ACBL is a direct cue bid is NOT alertable, unless its natural? No matter what the cuebid means. Go figure.

[luke warm]

well hell, i didn't know it wasn't alertable ... i play it as 2 lowest and have always alerted it (and michael's, and hi/low)

[twcho]

I agree in BBO with self alert function. Best to alert every bid and write a short explanation on the alert box. If the explanation being too long to fit in the box, I will send a private message to both opponents for the explanation of my bid.

One more thing, I seldom private chat to both opps about my pd's bid although I know it is an alertable bid because I fully expect my pd self alert his bid already. But is this the correct approach? Shd I also private chat to opponents about pd's bid? Any idea?

[twcho]

One thing that I learned when I once played vs Fred and his wife in BBO is what is really called full disclosure. Fred's wife (sorry about forgetting her name) alert her pass bid and explain in the box that she tends to deny holding 3 card support in Fred's major (because they play supportive double in that situation). I have never encountered another one that will alert the pass bid. From then on, I learned from her and try to explain as detail as possible to our opps about our agreement. E.g. whenever I open 1NT, I will write in the alert box our pt range and also write down "can have 5M".

[jtfanclub]

bearmum, on Oct 12 2004, 05:43 PM, said:

As BBO is used by players from all over the world it is probably as well to alert the agreements you have with partner no matter if they are non alertable in the USA. Here in Australia STAYMAN is alertable ( I disagree with the rule BUT that IS the rule, and as such I do alert Stayman when playing here )
AS to the adjustment -- not being a director I'm not qualified to judge

AS to the adjustment -- not being a director I'm not qualified to judge

I haven't given you enough information to judge- that wasn't the question.

I do appreciate the answer though- it's what I wanted to know. From now on, I will alert unusual 2NT...and, apparently, Stayman.

[inquiry]

twcho, on Oct 12 2004, 10:12 PM, said:

One more thing, I seldom private chat to both opps about my pd's bid although I know it is an alertable bid because I fully expect my pd self alert his bid already. But is this the correct approach? Shd I also private chat to opponents about pd's bid? Any idea?

I think no. This could give tte oponents information they are not necessary suppose to have... what I mean is if your partner alerts his bid as meaning one thing, and you alert it to mean something else. They know you have a bidding misagreement. Now they may get an adjustment if your partner misalerts your real understanding, but they are not entitled to know your side is confused, unless your bids pint this out to them, not your words.

Ben

[helium]

In norway all bids thats not natural (show the suit ) are alertable. and offcourse we alert stayman too, why shouldn we, its so many systems out there its impossible to know what others use 1 nt-2clubs as.

kenneth

[1eyedjack]

It is alertable in events under the jurisdiction of the EBU (ie in the UK).

The broad definition of default alerting rules on BBO seem to indicate that it is alertable on BBO. That could be overridden by alerting rules specified by a tourney host. In the absence of any override, I would suggest that the BBO general rules on BBO events take precedence over ACBL alerting rules.

Having said all that, I would as TD be uncomfortable about awarding an adjusted score simply because it is alertable (although a warning would certainly be in order). I dislike players who clearly understand that the bid is likely to be alertable, especially in light of their own hands, and go for a "double shot" at a good score by taking advantage of the non-alert when they know enough to seek clarification (if the player sitting over the 2NT bid hand had a strong hand with shortage in Hearts and Clubs, for example).

The TD's powers in the event of a non-alert are, as with the regulations on requirements of an alert, powers that are delegated to the sponsoring organisation. So I would imagine (correct me if I am wrong) that the TD has the authority not to award an adjusted score should he be so inclined. Whether the TD should bend over backwards to decide that the "innocent" party has been damaged is debatable.

[helene_t]

ABCL alert rules do not apply on BBO, not even at ABCL-sponsored tournaments. This is because online bridge is different from offline bridge.

Most tournaments specify that all artificial calls should be alerted. In that case there is no excuse for not alerting a highly artificial call as the unusual 2NT.

I'm glad to hear that artificial calls are alertable in Australia, that gives me yet another reason to migrate . Here in the Netherlands, most calls may or may not be alertable depending on the way the TD hapends to interpret the alert rules.

[luke warm]

helene_t, on Oct 13 2004, 04:58 PM, said:

I'm glad to hear that artificial calls are alertable in Australia, that gives me yet another reason to migrate .

can i hitch a ride with you?

[the hog]

You can both stay at my place.

[luke warm]

deal!!!! now all we need is a 4th