[whereagles]

gwnn, on 2011-November-17, 04:18, said:

He's a silent gaurdian. A watchful protector. A dark knight.

THE STIG????

[kgr]

My own list (If I leave some really experts out then it is because there name is not fixed in my memory).
- jlall
- MikeH, FrancesHinden, Gwnn, Inquiry, Han, Rhm, Phil.
Remarks:
- for bidding problems I'm always happy when I took same bid as Justin. (and for play I'm often amazed by the psychology he indicates in his posts).
- I'm not really sure if Inquiry is a bridge expert in real live, but I really liked some of his post initiatives (Squeezes, play/defend problems for beginners). He is an expert poster for me
- I dislike:
- - multiple - unrelated - hands in one post
- - Bidding or hands that are not clear. Better use the hand diagram.
- - Structure of Nige1's posts
- I regret that Fred is not posting anymore. It would be a good check with Justin.

[han]

I also think that being the best posters are not necessarily the best bridge players.

For example, I'm probably the only poster here that would beat JLOGIC in a long match, but his writing is much better.

[Free]

kgr, on 2011-November-17, 07:57, said:

- I dislike:
- - multiple - unrelated - hands in one post
- - Bidding or hands that are not clear. Better use the hand diagram.

+1

[Zelandakh]

Free, on 2011-November-17, 04:55, said:

posts with exactly 1 upvote from a particular person,...

Hmmmm, I resemble that remark...

[billw55]

I am somewhat surprised that more professionals don't post here. It seems to me that a semi-regular sage contribution would be good marketing, and perhaps help to draw clients, promote book sales, etc. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the market.

[MrAce]

billw55, on 2011-November-17, 10:57, said:

I am somewhat surprised that more professionals don't post here. It seems to me that a semi-regular sage contribution would be good marketing, and perhaps help to draw clients, promote book sales, etc. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the market.

Because forum writing turned into somewhat professional business also, almost all top players have either their own forum and want to populate it , or they are writing in someone else's forum to support their friend. There are some of them who actually asks you money for being a member.

Probably RHM knows better about your question because he seems to post in every forum available on earth about bridge.

Bridge Winners site for example, has more celebrities, i like it, however it doesnt have a forum. You can only post your own topic by going thru administration. And the topics do not top the list when they are replied. So it is more like a newspaper to me.

We have top players here, Justin, MikeH Andy etc, and the good thing about them is they contribute to these forums with totally amateur spirit. It is not easy nowadays u find a pro player at the caliber of Justin who regularly writes, helps to all kinds of levels of this game without being concerned to say what he has to say when it comes to things that people usually prefer to remain silent for political and professional reasons. He does that in his own blog too. He has been downvoted, LOL ed , called names like "JLackoflogic" but he did not give up on people here.

And below the top players we have some very decent players as well. Even the ones that call themselves intermediate. To be honest i saw players with stars in BBO, which is spared for "World Class" by BBO, who are not as good as some of our members here who calls themselves intermediate to be humble. For example Antrax or Bunnygo, i assume they call themselves intermediate because they always answer in B/I forums and ask questions. They have a very solid logic in both bidding and play/defense topics and they are open to listen and improve. I saw players with stars who are not even close to their level.

Those are the reasons why i stick here, more celebrity is always a good thing but if Fred writes more often besides Justin, MikeH, 655321,Gnasher etc etc, i am more than happy with level here. Of course this may not be the same for Fred, Justin, MikeH because after all they may want to write somewhere that more people at their level is writing, so i maybe acting selfish here

[ggwhiz]

I vote for anyone that agrees with me but there aren't any

The obvious, Fred and Jlall for knowledge I appreciate the legal background of MikeH resulting in concise (mostly) appropriate posts. He "practised" law for long enough to finally get it right.

As a medium level Director I really appreciate the Laws forum posts of blackshoe, bluejak and mrdct and apologize if I've missed someone. The professional Directors trolling those threads are a big help.

[gnasher]

MikeH's posts are thoughtful, instructive, well-written and generally a pleasure to read, but I wouldn't call them "concise".

[jallerton]

Fluffy, on 2011-November-10, 08:28, said:

This highly subjective. I read almost everything most say, but to answer your question, for me fred, jlall are above the rest, then jdonn, mikeh, franceshinden and gnasher (not in that order). Those are the ones I will carfully read what they say. Sadly fred and jdonn are not posting much latelly, and like them, there are other very good players who post here only ocasionally.

Those are the only ones I could tell you being politically correct, you would be a fool if you ignored some 5-6 others, I have a list in my mind that ranks most of them but placing one over the other is subjective and something I won't do publically.

Fluffy, you forgot to mention your own excellent posts.

mikeh, on 2011-November-10, 11:35, said:

A specific ranking would, indeed, be 'petty'.

I agree that of those who post with any semblance of frequency, Fred and Justin would rank 1st and 2nd.

Fred posts all too infrequently, but, when he does, I find myself persuaded every time. Justin posts far more frequently and, perhaps as a consequence, I find myself disagreeing with him on occasion....but never because I think he is clearly wrong. Even when I remain unpersuaded, I usually feel I have learned something.

I am not going to comment on others, since I would likely offend people by omission or by being perceived as damning with faint praise. I would, however, like to single out Frances for the quality of the play problems she posts.

Mike, you didn't mention your own excellent analysis.

JLOGIC, on 2011-November-16, 04:35, said:

Not enough 655321 love lol.

In general I agree with Mickyb that you need a combination of thoughtfulness/well written posts combined with someone who knows bridge well. I think awm and frances are both a good combo of those and everyone could learn from them/their posts. Mikeh also.

It really depends what level you're at in who you will learn the most from. I mean I like gnasher and 655321 and hans posts a lot but sometimes you have to read between the lines and if you are a beginner or something some of the posts you will not gain that much from, but to me they are all really good at logic/thought so I gain a lot from their posts (even if I think they're wrong, I have to go through the excersize of where we differ because it is not usually just a logic error, it is some kind of evaluation difference). Also these people generally seem to aim their posts towards an expert audience.

Fred was the best poster ever obv, and if you ever get the chance to talk to him irl it is pretty much the same. Very clear thinker. And rhm is the fred of play/defense problems lol.

Justin, you didn't mention your own contributions, which must win on sheer volume of instructive information.

MickyB, on 2011-November-10, 09:37, said:

Agree with Fluffy that Fred and Justin are a level above the rest, as they both play and write very well.

MikeH, Frances, Gnasher and Phil all post frequently and thoroughly, and are often thought-provoking. Also RHM but his bidding isn't to my taste!

I believe [but I'm not certain in all cases - I haven't played against them all] that Mich-B, Fluffy, Han, Cherdano, 655321, DBurn and myself are among the top players here, but we post less frequently and/or less thoroughly than the names mentioned above.

I knew we could rely on somebody to mention himself!

[mikeh]

gnasher, on 2011-November-17, 17:50, said:

MikeH's posts are thoughtful, instructive, well-written and generally a pleasure to read, but I wouldn't call them "concise".

they r 2

or wil b

[JLOGIC]

billw55, on 2011-November-17, 10:57, said:

I am somewhat surprised that more professionals don't post here. It seems to me that a semi-regular sage contribution would be good marketing, and perhaps help to draw clients, promote book sales, etc. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the market.

I don't know how many posts I've written here, but I'm guessing something like ~15,000 over like 7+ years. I have been a full time professional the entire time, and I am sure that I have never directly gotten even 1 client/tournament because of posting on the forums.

The problem is that it is really quite expensive to hire a team for even 1 regional tournament, and there are relatively few people who can and want to pay 20k+ (or 30k+ to play 6 handed) to play a week of bridge somewhere. The people who do this are well known in the bridge world, established with some close friends (team managers, whatever), and the only way to compete for those jobs is through personal interaction with them or a recommendation from their team manager. Basically, to play well vs them, have a good reputation, and for everyone involved to like you, as well as having good results. Those things will all matter more than how you post on the forums. Even if any of those people read the forums (and it's unlikely that any do), it is unlikely that you will get hired as a result of your posts. Perhaps if any of those people read the forums and particularly liked my posts it might make them ask their team manager/friends about me, and/or approach me to interact more often, but as far as I know that's never happened. It is also unlikely that any new sponsors like this would start by reading the forums, and then picking me, again there is much more involved and it's more a people industry than anything.

On top of all that, BBF is really not that big of a forum, and generally older/very wealthy people don't read internet forums. The demographics just don't work.

That said, of course there might be indirect benefits to posting on the forums for me, like if it raises my status/profile (and I am sure that posting here, and being on BBO/OKB all the time DID raise my profile in the beginning, though that's not why I did it, my dad joked that I was an internet celebrity). If you have low visibility and are just getting started, of course doing positive things on the internet can help prove yourself.

I think it would be easier for bridge teachers or people looking for club game work or stuff like that to directly gain business by posting here since it is less price restrictive, and the demographic here would be more likely to hire someone like that (presumably people post here to try and improve, and some of those people might be willing to pay for lessons). But, to post enough to gain followers would probably be time consuming enough that your time "marketing" would be better spent in a targeted way. Really it only makes sense to post here if you enjoy doing so as a hobby, since it would not be an efficient use of time for marketing even for smaller level pros.

A personal website/blog would also obviously be a better way to try and create business since it is entirely focused on you. Of course you need to find a way to get people to go there, but probably if someone is thinking of hiring you they already know you, so maybe they search you out and find your blog. Also, the bridge site/blog community is very small so if you put out something good then word of mouth is pretty powerful.

[JLOGIC]

MrAce, on 2011-November-17, 13:00, said:

It is not easy nowadays u find a pro player at the caliber of Justin who regularly writes, helps to all kinds of levels of this game without being concerned to say what he has to say when it comes to things that people usually prefer to remain silent for political and professional reasons. He does that in his own blog too. He has been downvoted, LOL ed , called names like "JLackoflogic" but he did not give up on people here.

This is of course not really correct. I believe you get from communities what you give. You don't see people like Fred or gnasher getting trolled, because they don't troll anyone ever. I have many haters, but I know you haven't been around here that long timo but I obv earned many of them (maybe not the specific people, but some %age of people will dislike you/troll you if you behave in certain manners).

Also, it is not like I am selflessly helping everyone and gaining nothing. Not to get all "everything everyone does is selfish" on this, but I do believe that people act in their own self interest. I love the internet and that it opens up the world to you. The way I look at it, before the internet there were a limited amount of people that you could interact with, so let's say 5 % of those people are smarter than you/can become your friends/whatever, well that's 5 % of a small number (relatively). 5 % of a much much bigger number would obviously lead to better/more friends, interactions, etc. I met some really good friends like han and cherdano on the forums. I likely would not have known them without this medium. I am moving into a house with jdonn next year, without the forums we probably wouldn't have interacted nearly as much (obv we were friends but he lived a long way away and has a full time job). Even Phil and I who have had a...tumultuous relationship on here to say the least, have had at least a couple of memorable times together as friends. Even you, Timo! It also eliminates regional biases, etc, talking with people from everywhere. I like interacting with people in general, especially outside of my normal social circle. That will always make you a richer person.

I also believe that you grow as a player through debating different thoughts. Even if you strongly disagree with someone, learning how others think can only help your bridge (this is even more important in poker, you have to know all possible thought processes to understand the lines people take). And sometimes you're wrong or have a bad thought process, and often this is illustrated through debate.

Finally, thinking through things and thinking about bridge in general constantly can only help your bridge. It helps you clarify your own views on bridge to write. Sometimes you "know" things but have never consciously thought through why it's true, etc. Understanding the theory and basis of bridge and actively thinking about it can only be good. Fixing your thought errors is much more likely to happen in discussion.

That these things happen to make me write a lot of posts that sometimes help others is not selfless. I gain and have gained a lot through this forum, and that's why I post.

Even my blog, a large part of it is certainly just being an attention whore, but I also like to write about things that haven't been written about, and originally I just wanted to work on my writing. Some people like to try and get published in a magazine like the bridge world just for the prestige of doing it. I doubt they're actually just "giving back."

[MickyB]

jallerton, on 2011-November-17, 18:13, said:

I knew we could rely on somebody to mention himself!

Sorry, my fragile ego couldn't cope with too many lists as long as Timo's without my name being mentioned in the thread

[MrAce]

MickyB, on 2011-November-17, 20:05, said:

Sorry, my fragile ego couldn't cope with too many lists as long as Timo's without my name being mentioned in the thread

Are you sure ?

MrAce, on 2011-November-10, 08:17, said:

Excluding Fred and some other good players who do not post regularly.

Perhaps you used to post a lot but i always thought u just jump in now and then but infrequently. Some may think it also applies to 655321 too but it is tuff to call someone infrequent poster when he has more than 10K posts. Lately he is tho.

[ggwhiz]

mikeh, on 2011-November-17, 18:24, said:

they r 2

or wil b

Still practising? When are you eligible for parol?