[inquiry]

Scoring: IMP

(4♠)- 5♥ - (5♠) - ? ? ?

---

There is no right answer. I am just curious how people will bid here, I am sure the popular choice will be 6♥... but am curious about peoples thoughts...

ben

[whereagles]

I bid 6H, and double 6S. Though, as you said, anything can be right... or wrong

[daswallow]

I prefer 6d, so pard will not lead a heart if we defend.

[inquiry]

daswallow, on Oct 12 2004, 12:56 PM, said:

I prefer 6d, so pard will not lead a heart if we defend.

I like this logic. What would you do if partner bids 6H and the next hand bids 6S?

ben

[hrothgar]

6NT. What's the problem???

[whereagles]

The problem is pard may not have the heart ace...

[inquiry]

whereagles, on Oct 12 2004, 01:19 PM, said:

The problem is pard may not have the heart ace...

What you said.. 6NT would not occur to me either..but remember, there are no right or wrong answers.. :-)

[helium]

daswallow, on Oct 12 2004, 11:56 AM, said:

I prefer 6d, so pard will not lead a heart if we defend.

And all pass, partner have 3 small♦ and u are 1 down when 7♥ is laydown

[mr1303]

If my partner passes 6D, I get a new partner.....

[inquiry]

I agree with Mr1303 that 6♦ has to be heart support... partner bid to the five level VUL at imps all by himself. With a two suiter (even fairl good hearts), he could have bid 4NT.. no, in most partnerships, after this 5♥ bid, hearts will be trumps if you play the hand, your potential nine card diamond suit be damned.

But since the voting is going heavily for the immediate 6H, let me at least frame the question. How many tricks do you think your partner has for the immediate 5♥ overcall at this vulnerabiilty at imps? Would he risk down five (thus only 6 tricks)? Would he be risking down three (thus only 8 tricks)? Let's say you think partner is sane, and is only risking down two with normal breaks (9 tricks). How many tricks do you have for him? 2D, 1C, a club ruff or a third diamond. Looks like four tricks to me, at a minimum. So you will easily have 13 top tricks, but you might have one quick loser (partner can't hardly have no control in both DIAMONDS and HEARTS, so you know he has great hearts and the club ACE).

So the question is bid 6H and give up on seven? Is there some way to logically try for seven? Is 6D even a cue-bid of diamonds, or is it a kind of LAST TRAIN? AFter partner bids 5♥ vul, would a pass by you over 5♠ be forcing (The hog I think will say it is)? Interesting possiblitiies or not?

Ben

BTW, when this hand was presented in master solvers decades ago, 77% of the solvers voted for 6H (me too then), and 72% of the panel did as well.

[Fluffy]

I love the 6♦ call for lead directing purposes, but I am not sure if I would do it at the table, can´t be totally sure partner wouldn´t pass it.

[the hog]

Like Fluffy said!

[pclayton]

Ben: you have NS vul on this. Not sure if theres a typo in there. From your comments, it looks like you meant EW)

If 5♥ is some kind of save / make at this vulnerability (assuming - them); I can't see how my subsequent pass of 6♠ can be forcing. And if a pass of 6♠ is forcing; it would certainly promise 1st round spade control.

I like 6♦ too at any vulnerability. It's conceivable I have an 8 bagger in diamonds, but its got to be a lead director. Heck, they might even get a ruff/sluff at trick 1; blecch.

[luke warm]

i'd be too gutless to bid 6d, this is one of those things you need a regular partner for, but even that might not insure another bid... i don't agree that if i bid it and he passed i should look for a new pard... why? unless it's discussed, i think misunderstandings are more rather than less likely

i bid 6h BUT i'd bid 6nt over 6s... 7 never entered my mind... well it *entered* it (cause of possible spade void in p's hand), but if they bid 6s and i bid 6nt, i imagine pard will bid 7 anyway with that void...

[Free]

Seems like with all these options, you don't mention a Dbl despite the current vulnerability... Conclusion: grand is laydown

[Rebound]

I chose 6♦ because I liked it best but I doubt I would have thought of it at the table and just bid 6♥

[helium]

Free, on Oct 12 2004, 09:12 PM, said:

Seems like with all these options, you don't mention a Dbl despite the current vulnerability... Conclusion: grand is laydown

yes my toughts too:)))

[inquiry]

This poll has gone, pretty much, just like it did in 1980. Back then one person voted for 6♦, but they choose not to even have him explain in his own words why (grand slam try).

I think the problem with 5NT and 6D as grand slam tries is that opener may not have a clue what you are showing....Your partner might not need the diamond king, but needs the heart king? Who knows? I don't see any intellegent way of inviting grand slam, even if pass of 5♠ is 100% forcing. In 1980, no one mentioned pass of 5♠.

So let's cover the topics, skiping the blind 7H to try to encourage a save by non-vul opponents or to hope to make. For this discussion, we will assume that pass of 5♠ is forcing.

Option #1 Simply bid 6H, this will be to play. But, if they bid 6♠ over this, does pass promise or deny a spade stopper (pass over 6♠ there would have to be grand slam try from either side.

Option #2. Bid 5NT and then retreat to 6H (Assuming partner iwth AKQ and a singleton spade doesn't bid 7H). Over this 6H they bid 7S, does forcing pass promise or deny a first roudn spade stopper.

Option #3. Bid 6D, and your partner retreats to 6H. Did 6D show or deny a spade stopper? A club stopper? If your partner bids 6H and they bid 6S, would pass by you show or deny first round spade control.

Option #4. You make a forcing pass... waht would each of these bids by your partner show?

• double
  
• 6C
  
• 6J
  
• 5NT
  
• highly unlikley 6D given your diamond holding

Finally,
Option #5, assuming a forcing pass by you was indeed forcing, what would 6D over partners double or 5NT, or 6C show? What would 6H by you show?

The reason I ask, is I don't know if there is any intellegent way to show what you ahve (good minor honors, heart legnth, no spade control, no top heart).. and if that is true, there is no reason to beat around the bush with any invitational hands, partner will not be able to bid hte grand with confidence anyway.

Ben

[Gerben47]

I bid 6♥ then double 6♠ to show a spade loser.

[xx1943]

inquiry, on Oct 12 2004, 07:01 PM, said:

daswallow, on Oct 12 2004, 12:56 PM, said:

I prefer 6d, so pard will not lead a heart if we defend.

I like this logic. What would you do if partner bids 6H and the next hand bids 6S?

ben

double to show, that I don't have first round spade control.

Pass would be forcing and showing spade A or void.