[whereagles]

Actually, I never think in terms of "This is a problem, so the normal solution must be wrong" No fun that way, eheh.

[mikestar]

If we have it in our toolkit, the ideal is 2N lebensohl followed by 3H = got both four spades and the heart stopper--in absence of this, I bid 3N.

I will editorialize on the initial pass. If in your system IN can't be opened on 11 point hands and AQxxx Kxxx xx xx is not a 1S opener, then there is no rational alternative to pass. You have 12 HCP including an empty spade suit and a doubleton Queen--this is scarcly worth 11, much less its nominal 12.

[inquiry]

Well, it certainly would be a crappy opening bid... 10 zar distributional points, 12 hcp, 4 control points, minus one point for Qx of diamonds. That comes to 26 - 1 or 25 ZAR points. Zar followers will open 25 ZAR points when holding the spade suit (four cards or more), so the only question is whether or not to treat this particular four card suit as a four card suit.... so it is, indeed, very close to pass/bid even with the very aggressive ZAR evalution. I could go either way on it (I would open, but I would gladly accept any decision to pass too).

[pclayton]

I passed, but I don't feel as strongly about it as many of the posters, since I think its close to 3N as well.

I'm a little concerned about a source of tricks for 3N. OTOH, 3rd hand opened a weak 2, and RHO didn't raise. Therefore, they may really have stepped in it and be playing a 6-1, 5-2 or possibly 5-1. While they are vulnerable, many don't get that tight at equal vulnerability. 500 seemed like a sure profit with the potential of a lot more.

Partner held: ♠AQJT ♥ Qx ♦ Axx ♣Txxx and LHO held: ♠Kx ♥K98xxx, ♦ JTx ♣ xx. We are booked for +800, but pard compressed our diamond trick by rising. Lost 3, since the other table played 4♠.

[helium]

3 NT here to:)

[flytoox]

pclayton, on Oct 11 2004, 03:23 PM, said:

We are booked for +800, but pard compressed our diamond trick by rising. Lost 3, since the other table played 4♠.

Another reason to buy insurance. Pd or I may misdefend it. It is always easier to declare than defend. (Or isnt it?)

Hongjun

[whereagles]

True. But if the spade king were offside, to bid would move us from +200/500 to -100

[inquiry]

flytoox, on Oct 11 2004, 11:35 AM, said:

pclayton, on Oct 11 2004, 03:23 PM, said:

We are booked for +800, but pard compressed our diamond trick by rising. Lost 3, since the other table played 4♠.

Another reason to buy insurance. Pd or I may misdefend it. It is always easier to declare than defend. (Or isnt it?)

Hongjun

There is no imp difference between +500 and +600 (well, 3 imps)... and not much between +600 and +800. The real bug a boo with pass teh double is when you get it only one (+200) versus game, or heavan forbid it makes (-670) versus you making game your way (+600).

Even opposite this horrible, horrible weak two vulnerable (some people just like to bid), you were lucky.. Revrese a minor king and the spade king, and the most you can get is 500, and even that is because your partner had the surprise heart queen or you are talking the most is 200. I can't imagine passing this and hoping for more than 800 and against "sane" 2H (I use sane here in the context of a player who looks at the fact that this is imps, opposite a passed partner and he is vulnerable), I would think even +800 is only possible when we have slam. Of course, knowing the oponents help. I know people who open 3H in third seat with a good two heart bid, so their 2H bid even vul is on crap.. against these guys, pass would be more of an option.

Ben

[gabika73]

2nt(Leb) then 3nt showing 4card spade, game-going values, and heart stopper.
Bypassing 2nt denies 4card spades, while cue instead of 3nt denies stopper.

Anyone else using this Leb structure?

[pclayton]

gabika73, on Oct 11 2004, 09:15 AM, said:

2nt(Leb) then 3nt showing 4card spade, game-going values, and heart stopper.
Bypassing 2nt denies 4card spades, while cue instead of 3nt denies stopper.

Anyone else using this Leb structure?

We use Leb here too, but the slow 3N would just show an amorphous hand with a heart stop. The delayed Q shows 4 spades and a heart stop. Didn't think this was a universal treatment though.