BBO Discussion Forums: Big hand without fit - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Big hand without fit 2 over 1 auction

#1 User is offline   frank0 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 472
  • Joined: 2011-April-17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:US, Irvine CA

Posted 2011-October-19, 00:29

Your side is red, partner open 1 and you have
Ax
QT
AKJTxx
Kxx

1-2-2-3-3-?

What's next?
0

#2 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2011-October-19, 02:09

3 leaves most options open and shows Hx imo.
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
2

#3 User is offline   gwnn 

  • Csaba the Hutt
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,027
  • Joined: 2006-June-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:bye

Posted 2011-October-19, 07:40

Is it too much to ask for a proper layout?

1-2
2-3
3-?

I agree with 3.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
0

#4 User is offline   mck4711 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 90
  • Joined: 2011-July-19
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Europe
  • Interests:Diving, Climbing, and again - Bridge
    Age: 39

Posted 2011-October-19, 07:42

I assume that shown bidding is our sequence, without interference of opps.

IMO 3 is a gross underbid. After p has shown a weak opening and no fit, repeating your own suit shows 6+cards and is not forcing. Your p may pass. I think a better answer is 3 - FSF, and in this sequence GF. It gives p the opportunity to describe his hand once more:
3: 3card-support in , meaning he has something like 5431
3: likely 5-5 in and and no -support
3: no stopper in , no -support
3NT: stopper in

Depending on his answer you can continue accordingly. Maybe your best spot is 3NT, maybe 6, maybe even a 5-2 fit in or .

EDIT:
Just realized that it is mentioned 2 over 1 GF. In this case a prefer a simple 3NT. NT is played from right side and if p has nothing in I have good chances to take my tricks before opps can do.
1

#5 User is offline   han 

  • Under bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,797
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Posted 2011-October-19, 09:31

4NT should be quantitative in this auction. That doesn't mean that I would bid it, but I think that it is better than 3NT.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
0

#6 User is offline   EricK 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,303
  • Joined: 2003-February-14
  • Location:England

Posted 2011-October-19, 15:34

What would 3 have shown by pard on previous round? If the answer is 5/5 plus extras, then I think 3NT is reasonable now. If it would have been a splinter in support of (which I don't like, but understand it is the more popular treatment), then 3NT looks like an underbid. On the other hand, 3 might make it difficult for pard to bid 3NT, especially as you would bid 3 with xxx in instead of Kxx; and 4NT is a bit precipitate with such a meagre stopper.

I'm not an expert on 2/1 (as may be apparent from the previous paragraph!). What would 2NT or 3 have shown on previous round. Does 2NT deny 6? Does 3 promise 4, show a fragment, or just ask pard to carry on bidding? Depending on the meaning of those, pard might draw some inference from my failure to use either of those sequences, which might help the decision now. If I had bid 2NT on previous round, I would be very happy with 3 now for instance - but will pard assume I don't have a stopper because I didn't use that route?
0

#7 User is offline   frank0 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 472
  • Joined: 2011-April-17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:US, Irvine CA

Posted 2011-October-19, 19:22

Free and gwnn: I think 3 is a good choice also, after that if my partner keep bidding spade, is that showing extra strength(6-card), willing to play 5-2, or just nothing else to say?

Mck4711: Thanks for the advise, but I think our agreement is 1-3 is WJS, 1-1NT-2-3 is invitation 6+ and 2 over 1 100% forcing to 3NT at least. I don't even know we have 4th suit forcing there.

Han: 4NT would be made exactly, partner put down xxxxxxx AK9xx Q, lead was K and your RHO has Jxxx :)
Unfortuantely I was in 6NT :(

EricK: about 1-2-3, I haven't discussed with my partner about it but could you give a little bit more reason on why you don't like to treat it as splinter?
0

#8 User is offline   Elianna 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,437
  • Joined: 2004-August-29
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 2011-October-19, 19:43

View Postfrank0, on 2011-October-19, 19:22, said:

Free and gwnn: I think 3 is a good choice also, after that if my partner keep bidding spade, is that showing extra strength(6-card), willing to play 5-2, or just nothing else to say?

Han: 4NT would be made exactly, partner put down xxxxxxx AK9xx Q, lead was K and your RHO has Jxxx :)
Unfortuantely I was in 6NT :(


If spades break 2-2, 6 spades looks pretty nice. I'm really tired, so I may be wrong about that.
My addiction to Mario Bros #3 has come back!
0

#9 User is online   mike777 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,798
  • Joined: 2003-October-07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-October-19, 21:28

View Postfrank0, on 2011-October-19, 00:29, said:

Your side is red, partner open 1 and you have
Ax
QT
AKJTxx
Kxx

1-2-2-3-3-?

What's next?



I can live with 3s or 4nt(quant)
0

#10 User is offline   mcphee 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,514
  • Joined: 2003-February-16

Posted 2011-October-20, 04:56

While 3NT may be a spot we can play I see no great reason for not just bidding 3S and see if dear partner can make some constructive move, like 4C for example making 6S look better and better. 3N is not a sensible bid even though we do hold a C stop, it is a very thin stop if partner has no help in C, we may have to knock out a major suit card before we can reach 9 tricks, that would be shameful when 4S is a claim.
1

#11 User is offline   EricK 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,303
  • Joined: 2003-February-14
  • Location:England

Posted 2011-October-20, 11:02

View Postfrank0, on 2011-October-19, 19:22, said:

EricK: about 1-2-3, I haven't discussed with my partner about it but could you give a little bit more reason on why you don't like to treat it as splinter?

The trouble with 2/1 auctions in 2/1 GF is that often neither player finds it easy to show extras. So after 2 or three rounds each player has a great idea of their partner's distribution, but little or no idea of exactly how strong they are. In very simple terms, 13v13 is game; 17v17 is slam; and 13v17 is game or slam depending on degree of fit, number of controls etc. If the player(s) with extras can't show that, their partner can never be sure it is OK to bid on. It is very acute on slightly misfitting hands, because you often want to play these in 3NT, and that is the game that leaves the smallest amount of room for exploration.

This hand is a good example of the problems. If opener can jump to 3 to show a strong 5-5 and go via 2 3 to show a minimum 5-5, then you are well placed in either scenario. If they have to go via 2 then 3 to show any 5-5 you are facing the very problem you have presented us with. Whereas raising to 3 on any hand with support (whether or not it has a singleton) presents you with fewer problems (IMO) as now you know there is a fit, there is less need to find out partner's strength below 3NT.

As an aside, I don't like partner's opening bid on the hand you gave.!
0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users