[mike777]

Trying to learn, thank you in advance

Over my head in 13 board team game on BBO, my partner and opp's and teammates are all experts or world class. I am closer to beginner.

Assume your hand is close to:
K109XXX=QX=XX=AJX
VUL..VS..NV

BIDDING GOES:
3C=P=P=?

My general understanding is with good 9HCP and short clubs I should try and bid something. Here my clubs are not that short or weak.

I bid 3s but thought pass was much better.
My partner said my bidding was OK
Other table/world class/ bid 3s.

Any general rules in balance seat with
1)long suit?
2)semi-balanced hand?
3)Vul. consideration?

[inquiry]

mike777, on Oct 4 2004, 02:48 PM, said:

Any general rules in balance seat with
1)long suit?
2)semi-balanced hand?
3)Vul. consideration?

1) When you balance, you are hoping you have a fit. I would suspect that you are likely to have 6-2 or 6-3 fit here at least. This doesn't have to be. Partner could have one spade, but your KT9 provides some protection... But I think here you are fairly sure of a 8 card fit at minimum. That favors bidding.

2) Semi-balanced hand is worse, or course than unbalanced hand. Here, the hand with values in clubs, perhaps a useless heart queen doubleton, and two little diamonds favor conservative pass.

3) Vulnerability is very important. You don't want to miss a vulnerable game, and are thus willing to strech some to bid on when vul. On the other hand, EW are likely to open very light at this vul, so your RHO might have a very good hand and still pass...these cancel out.

Having said that, if it makes sense, let's evaluate this hand. Not vul, opener might have 6C, but if he is a sond bidder, a first seat preempt (you would open 2S, so your LHO must be in first seat), may have seven. Your partner 1) couldn't double, 2) couldn't overcall. He rates to have only one or two clubs. So he is fairly weak. How aggressive is your partner? If the answer is fairly aggressive PASS standouts out without further analysis.

How do you figure which to do (bid or pass). Imagine EAST with six/seven clubs to king Queen, and litle else. Split the remaining cards between partenr and LHO... For instnace, give partner SPADE_ACE, and WEST spade QJx, give partenr heart ACE and west K, give partern QJ of diamond and WEST AK. You lose (at least) 1S, 1H, and 2D.. you might lose a club. Partner can not have a lot more than Axx Axxx QJxx xx, as he passed over the 3C, but imporantly, he might have a lot less.

The danger here is that your RHO is strong. Since this is imps (team game), and I don't think we will have game opposite my partner's pass unles she has the perfect hand (never play me for the perfect hand, because I will not have it), I would pass. The logic is clear. We are unlikely to have game if partner could not take a direct action over 3C, and we might go down in 3 or 4S, perhaps doubled if RHO is strong. Now give me three clubs to the xxx and move the club AJ values to a suit like hearts, or diamonds, or spades, I would be more inclined to risk a balance. Those five points in clubs will not help set up extra tricks in your partner's hand, and the jack is basicallly useless on offense, but useful no defense.

So while it might be a mistake, I am goig to pass, being willing to apologize to partner if he has singleton club, diamond A, heart king, and four pleasant spades to the queen (lose 1S, 1H, 1D)... and even then, rHO might be able to overruff the third club in dummy to hold me to 9 tricks in spades. At matchpoints, I would be more willing to stick my vulnerable head on the chopping block and bid 3S, but I still would not like that bid a lot... a little would depend upon my opponents. If I tought WEST the kind of player not to trap with a monster hand, I would be much more willing to bid 3S.

Ben

[jtfanclub]

mike777, on Oct 4 2004, 01:48 PM, said:

Trying to learn, thank you in advance

Over my head in 13 board team game on BBO, my partner and opp's and teammates are all experts or world class. I am closer to beginner.

Assume your hand is close to:
K109XXX=QX=XX=AJX
VUL..VS..NV

BIDDING GOES:
3C=P=P=?

My general understanding is with good 9HCP and short clubs I should try and bid something. Here my clubs are not that short or weak.

I bid 3s but thought pass was much better.
My partner said my bidding was OK
Other table/world class/ bid 3s.

Any general rules in balance seat with
1)long suit?
2)semi-balanced hand?
3)Vul. consideration?

I would bid 3♠, but IMHO pass is right too.

One thought I have is, I pass a 3 level bid second hand with a balanced 12 count, but I would raise to game.

Suppose partner has Qxx Kxxx AKxx xx, would you want him to bid 4♠ over 3♠?

It looks good to me, so I bid 3♠

[inquiry]

jtfanclub, on Oct 4 2004, 04:19 PM, said:

I would bid 3♠, but IMHO pass is right too.

One thought I have is, I pass a 3 level bid second hand with a balanced 12 count, but I would raise to game.

Suppose partner has Qxx Kxxx AKxx xx, would you want him to bid 4♠ over 3♠?

It looks good to me, so I bid 3♠

A perfect hand, and you still ahve a guess to make in spades to make (otherwise, lose 2S, 1H and 1C).... Do you play spades to be 2-2, or EAST for AJx....

Ben

[jtfanclub]

inquiry, on Oct 4 2004, 03:23 PM, said:

jtfanclub, on Oct 4 2004, 04:19 PM, said:

I would bid 3♠, but IMHO pass is right too.

One thought I have is, I pass a 3 level bid second hand with a balanced 12 count, but I would raise to game.

Suppose partner has Qxx Kxxx AKxx xx, would you want him to bid 4♠ over 3♠?

It looks good to me, so I bid 3♠

A perfect hand, and you still ahve a guess to make in spades to make (otherwise, lose 2S, 1H and 1C).... Do you play spades to be 2-2, or EAST for AJx....

Ben

Oh no, not a perfect hand at all.

AJxx AKx xxxx xx is the perfect hand. 4 is cold, makes 5 on a non-diamond lead.

Another hand would be Axxx Axx Axxx xx.

Here's the restrictions for your partner:
12 hcp, counting the Q♣ as zero points (valuable on defense, worthless on offense).
Spades: 3 to the A or Q or any four.
Does not contain a 5 card major..

Can you design a hand where 4♠ has no play?

EDIT: Found one. Qxx KJxx KQJx xx. So maybe it isn't as good a 3♠ bid as I think.

Is 4♠ cold with most of these hands? No. But that's why pass isn't wrong either.

[inquiry]

But 12 points for your partner by definition falls into the perfect hand.. .what if you partner has 4 hcp? or 6 hcp? What if your partner has a singleton small spade? Or heavens forbid, a spade void?

What 3♠ tires to do is to catch partner with the perfect 12/13 point hand, adequate spade support so that game can make. There are a lot more hands where you will catch you parnter with nothing of value and even 3♠ is too high, sometimes much too high. Also, partner will raise you to game on some shapely 8 counts and 4♠ will have no play even when you were making 3♠.

Ben

[jtfanclub]

inquiry, on Oct 4 2004, 03:56 PM, said:

But 12 points for your partner by definition falls into the perfect hand.. .what if you partner has 4 hcp? or 6 hcp? What if  your partner has a singleton small spade?

Ben

Ah, misunderstood what you meant.

My question is, if your partner has the balanced 12-13 count that passes 3♣, do you want him to raise you to game? With those weaker hands, your partner isn't going to raise you.

I'm not concerned about an X, although maybe I should be. I think it's extremely unlikely that my partner has only 4 points. I have 10, LHO probably has 5-9. If my partner has 4 points that leaves 17-21 for RHO, and just about everybody would bid 3NT with that. Even if my partner has 6, it's likely RHO would bid 3NT.

LHO doesn't have a solid suit, so assume he has seven. You have three. Your partner has at most 3, probably 1-2. I think the odds of your partner having a singleton spade aren't enough to worry about.

Your partner most likely has 7-13 hcp, 2-4 spades, 3-4 hearts, 3-6 diamonds, 1-2 clubs. At least, that's what I think you should assume when you decide whether to bid.

Quote

Also, partner will raise you to game on some shapely 8 counts and 4♠ will have no play even when you were making 3♠.

But those are the boards when they're making 3♣, so 4♠ -1 is likely a good result.

[luke warm]

i can see ben's logic for passing, but admit i'd bid 3S

[pclayton]

Well, I might very well bid 3♠ at the table as well. I think its pretty close (and you very well may get your head handed to you by RHO...did he hitch?)

Pard might have:

1. A weak distributional hand unsuitable for action over 3♣: Axxx, Kxxx, xxxx, x

2. A flattish 'middling' hand such as: Axx, Axx, Axxx, xxx

3. An offshape hand where no bid is right: Ax, Axxx, Axxxx, xx or even a little better.

[Fluffy]

It depends on wich strenght does the partner´s double would promise, that is a matter of style, I myself play direct double and overcalls promise about 16 HCP, then I am forced to reopen every 10+(11) HCP hands.