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All doubles takeout. Are we inviting P into the discussion here, or just letting the opps go?
1N issues part 3
#1
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Posted 2011-October-03, 15:46
All doubles takeout. Are we inviting P into the discussion here, or just letting the opps go?
"I think maybe so and so was caught cheating but maybe I don't have the names right". Sure, and I think maybe your mother .... Oh yeah, that was someone else maybe. -- kenberg
"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other. -- Hamman, re: Wolff
"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other. -- Hamman, re: Wolff
#2
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Posted 2011-October-03, 16:13
Partner had opportunity to enter over 2♦ and didn't.
I have a minimum for my previous bid, and who knows maybe the opps are not done.
On the plus I have decent holdings in the blacks, nothing wasted in the reds, and fav V.
At IMPs it's a clear pass for me! at MP's its close but I wimp out and hope P may be able to back in.
I have a minimum for my previous bid, and who knows maybe the opps are not done.
On the plus I have decent holdings in the blacks, nothing wasted in the reds, and fav V.
At IMPs it's a clear pass for me! at MP's its close but I wimp out and hope P may be able to back in.
#4
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Posted 2011-October-03, 16:45
Pass, we are not in pass out seat and pd is not dead yet. Balancing 2♥ is very easy if u have the correct agreements. We dont even know if they have a fit yet or if they are done with bidding.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#5
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Posted 2011-October-03, 17:28
I would always double because it's so unlikely that defending 2♥ is right. Yes, partner can balance but we would also like him to be able to pass when it's right to do so. That is much easier for him if he can assume we don't have a hand like this one.
#6
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Posted 2011-October-04, 09:02
MrAce, on 2011-October-03, 16:45, said:
Balancing 2♥ is very easy if u have the correct agreements.
Can you elaborate?
"I think maybe so and so was caught cheating but maybe I don't have the names right". Sure, and I think maybe your mother .... Oh yeah, that was someone else maybe. -- kenberg
"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other. -- Hamman, re: Wolff
"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other. -- Hamman, re: Wolff
#7
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Posted 2011-October-04, 10:01
I would double at matchpoints and pass at IMPs.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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-- Bertrand Russell
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Posted 2011-October-04, 10:32
Double seems clear. It's T/O and we have T/O.
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Posted 2011-October-04, 11:17
Partner's double of 2D would have been takeout also, according to OP. They are the ones scrambling from a misfit in diamonds; I will leave them alone. Would be o.k. at this vul if pard has some diamonds and hearts and points.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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Posted 2011-October-04, 16:25
I would pass
1. The auction is relatively unlimited, and we don't know that LHO is passing 2♥
2. Partner is still there if LHO passes, tho he probably can't bid
3. The opps haven't shown a fit, so we can't infer that, since they have one, we rate to also have one
4. If the hand belongs to them, action by us will turn a mp average into a minus and a imp push into a big loss. While partscore swings count at imps, we have little reason to think this hand belongs to us.
1. The auction is relatively unlimited, and we don't know that LHO is passing 2♥
2. Partner is still there if LHO passes, tho he probably can't bid
3. The opps haven't shown a fit, so we can't infer that, since they have one, we rate to also have one
4. If the hand belongs to them, action by us will turn a mp average into a minus and a imp push into a big loss. While partscore swings count at imps, we have little reason to think this hand belongs to us.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#11
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Posted 2011-October-04, 16:31
What a beautiful t/o double. Great defence, 4 spades, 2 small hearts. Yea yea we could have a queen more but really that would not be a 1n opening any more.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
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Posted 2011-October-05, 13:08
gwnn, on 2011-October-04, 16:31, said:
What a beautiful t/o double. Great defence, 4 spades, 2 small hearts. Yea yea we could have a queen more but really that would not be a 1n opening any more.
I agree that this hand fits the definition of a takeout double. The problem is not that you lack the hand that you show by doubling....it's the risk that partner (who has so far been silent) lacks the hand that enables your side to survive your call.
Sometimes the auction should persuade us that a plausible action is just too dangerous. We can agree to disagree, but I do think that, if we act, we should at least acknowledge that this could be a disaster.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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Posted 2011-October-05, 14:44
There is some danger in acting, but obviously it is much more dangerous for partner to act if he has something like Qxxx xxx xxx Qxx. The hand short in opponents' suit should usually take the initiative and I don't think there is enough risk here to make an exception.
#15
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Posted 2011-October-05, 18:15
I think the fact that the opponents haven't found a fit (and likely have a misfit) makes doubling too scary for me. While it's obvious how doubling could be right for us, we should also consider that the opponents will sometimes bid poorly in this auction as well even if we keep our mouth shut.
OK
bed
bed
#16
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Posted 2011-October-09, 04:21
I agree with jmcw and mikeh. Partner didn't double 2D so has less than a 7-count. If it is right to bid over 2H, partner can double in passout seat.
This is very different from 1NT - 2H - p - p, where doubling is automatic. Here I would only double with something close to a maximum. We don't need to protect partner.
This is very different from 1NT - 2H - p - p, where doubling is automatic. Here I would only double with something close to a maximum. We don't need to protect partner.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#17
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Posted 2011-October-10, 09:40
X. And for sure this is not everybodies cup of coffee.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#18
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Posted 2011-October-10, 09:54
Pass. Partner can bid 2♠ or 2N as TO, compete with 3♣ or even smack 2♥ (penalty) when it comes around. He can pass too. I am happy with whatever he chooses.
Unfortunately in my methods, if I have the heart stack, we are playing for 100's, unless I can double.
Unfortunately in my methods, if I have the heart stack, we are playing for 100's, unless I can double.
Hi y'all!
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#19
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Posted 2011-October-10, 09:58
Phil, on 2011-October-10, 09:54, said:
Pass. Partner can bid 2♠ or 2N as TO, compete with 3♣ or even smack 2♥ (penalty) when it comes around. He can pass too. I am happy with whatever he chooses.
Unfortunately in my methods, if I have the heart stack, we are playing for 100's.
Unfortunately in my methods, if I have the heart stack, we are playing for 100's.
Just to clarify: partner cannot axe 2H; his X would be t/o (I'm coming around on the "it should be penalty in this auction, because he has 2S and 2N as takeout" idea -- it just didn't fit into the meta-agreements we had already discussed, so I'm treating it as t/o for now).
"I think maybe so and so was caught cheating but maybe I don't have the names right". Sure, and I think maybe your mother .... Oh yeah, that was someone else maybe. -- kenberg
"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other. -- Hamman, re: Wolff
"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other. -- Hamman, re: Wolff
#20
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Posted 2011-October-10, 10:14
mikeh, on 2011-October-05, 13:08, said:
I agree that this hand fits the definition of a takeout double. The problem is not that you lack the hand that you show by doubling....it's the risk that partner (who has so far been silent) lacks the hand that enables your side to survive your call.
Sometimes the auction should persuade us that a plausible action is just too dangerous. We can agree to disagree, but I do think that, if we act, we should at least acknowledge that this could be a disaster.
Sometimes the auction should persuade us that a plausible action is just too dangerous. We can agree to disagree, but I do think that, if we act, we should at least acknowledge that this could be a disaster.
Yes it can be a disaster, actually almost any post could be appended with this stipulation
well ok, I realise that in this case the chances of a disaster are higher than, say, when we double a 2H opener with a 4144 14 count
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin