[the hog]

"i can't really imagine why 3c would be anything other than a slam try"

I wonder. I guess it depends how you play Drury. If opener is showing a normal, not a light opening, then there is still no guarantee you have a game in hand. Why can't 3C be a trial bid of some description? It seems that virtually everyone here is saying that if opener has a normal opening over a drury 2C we must play in game. Why? If opener has 12-13 and resp has your average 10-11, does this mean game is in the refrigerator? I think not. Thats why I think the 3C bid is poor on the given hand, unless you follow up with 4D at some stage to show it was an advance cue. The 4S bid in the given auction is a shocker in my opinion.

What is the difference between these auctions playing reverse Drury?
1H 2C 2D 2H 3C and
1H 2C 3C and
1H 2C 4C

I would like to know which of the above could/should be a trial bid. I know how we play it, but how do YOU?

The upshot of all this and the debate here is that Whereagles and his pd had not discussed the meaning of the bid apart from some nebulous - "It is slammish". Posing a question such as that posed by Whereagles is totally meaningless unless you pose it by explaining the meaning of the bids and the continuations as YOU play them. Ben has thought them through it seems and can therefore come to some logical conclusion in the partnerships he plays. I wouldn't want to draw the long bow on these deductions in a pick up partnership though, no matter how good the partner.

Hard to understand why continuations were not discussed in a regular partnership, but that's none of my business, I guess.

fwiw after reverse Drury we play
2D = normal opening. Now new suits = trials, 2N = scattered values and 2M = nothing to add

Jumps by opener show 5-5. v. good hand
Double jumps by opener show splinters, v. good hands
2N = 17-18 suggestion on 3nt as a final contract

On the hand Whereagles posted we would clearly jump to 4H over 2C.

[pclayton]

Well, if 3♣ is explicitly a slam try, then 3N isn't correct. The original poster merely called 3♣ as natural, so go guess. I'm not sure 3♦ is so much a cue bid anyway, as so much as a concentration of values (so its still fine). Ben, if you really think about it, 3N should be Serious in this auction, if you play 3♣ as a slam try, although that certainly wasn't my intention .

And as far as this hand is concerned, if 3♣ is just a game try (with clubs), then 3N is fine, to give pard a choice of games. Give pard a 5224 with red queens and weak trumps and thats where the hand should play. To play partner for a possible slam try, when a game try takes priority is ill-founded.

So, how good is this hand anyway? The Kx of clubs are nice, and certainly GOLD opposite a SLAM try with LONG clubs. The trumps are about as worse as possible, and the red kings; well, might be nice and they might not.

I doubt if many partnerships have the same detailed drury agreements as Ben and I do. So I'm not too worried about missing a slam if one partner plays 3♣ as really forward going and one doesn't. If there is doubt, then it is absolutely incumbent for the East hand to bid 4♦. How can it cost? Now with the heart control, West can take control; or at least cue it.

Ben, I don't feel slighted when you express your opinion about the way hands should be bid, even an indirect slam at me or others. I do it too sometimes; sometimes these comments gets replied too, and sometimes they doesn't (I'm not specifying occasions ).

[whereagles]

The_Hog, on Oct 10 2004, 03:52 AM, said:

Posing a question such as that posed by Whereagles is totally meaningless unless you pose it by explaining the meaning of the bids and the continuations as YOU play them

You can check that when I put a problem, I usually explain all the options available. This was not the case because the situation hadn't been discussed in detail.

It surprises me to see an experienced player demanding precise explanations when it's common-sense that very often undiscussed situations occur. In fact, many hands on bidding challenges go over the theme of interpreting undiscussed auctions!

[the hog]

"It surprises me to see an experienced player demanding precise explanations when it's common-sense that very often undiscussed situations occur"

Really!! Thats news to me on such common situations. The main undiscussed situations happen in contested auctions, not in everyday situations. Well I guess it depends how seriously you play.

[luke warm]

ok, you convinced me... now i *can* imagine 3C being something other than a slam try... but all i said about the bidding was (and i still believe this) "if you believe 3C is slammish, you should cooperate with 3D"

[whereagles]

The_Hog, on Oct 10 2004, 11:57 AM, said:

Well I guess it depends how seriously you play.

Indeed. Some people have better things to do in life than playing Bridge.

[luke warm]

well... maybe some people have *more* things to do, but imho there are few *BETTER* things to do

[pclayton]

whereagles, on Oct 10 2004, 06:39 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Oct 10 2004, 11:57 AM, said:

Well I guess it depends how seriously you play.

Indeed. Some people have better things to do in life than playing Bridge.

Absolutely. Posting in these forums for instance.