[daveharty]

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Agree or disagree with 2NT? Now do you pass or correct to 4H?

EDIT: Matchpoints

[Hanoi5]

I would have bid 4♥ which shows this hand. Now that partner has 'closed' with 3NT I might pass which will make my misbid in the previous round have sense.

1x-1y
2NT

should be used with balanced hands with no fit for partner's suit. In cases where we hold 4-card support 4 of the Major stands out as the best bid to describe our hand.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I feel you have game, so I disagree with 2NT -- as it can be passed.

With a doubleton somewhere I would have rebid 4H ( over 1H ).

With this 3 4 3 3 I don't know whether 3NT or 4H is better.....
but if Responder is unbalanced, 4H should be better.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That said would a 2D-reverse give you the information you need for the final decision ( Lebensohl available )?
For example:
p - 1C
1H - 2D
2H ( 5+cards ) - 4H

[masse24]

Hanoi5, on 2011-September-30, 07:44, said:

I would have bid 4♥ which shows this hand. Now that partner has 'closed' with 3NT I might pass which will make my misbid in the previous round have sense.

1x-1y
2NT

should be used with balanced hands with no fit for partner's suit. In cases where we hold 4-card support 4 of the Major stands out as the best bid to describe our hand.

Me too.

[gwnn]

Sweet memories

[Phil]

If I am playing with someone that learned bridge in 1968, then 4♥ over 1♥ does indeed show this hand.

The modern style, and it it isn't that modern is that responder doesn't promise a six count, and a balanced hand with 18-19 and no shortness rebids 3M over 1M. A jump to 4M shows a lot of playing strength, but isn't as strong as a splinter or 4m. There are some 19's and some 5422's 18's that you need to shove into game, so sometimes you need to invent a splinter on Kx, or a jump shift, or do something else.

Agree with the 2N rebid, even though some handhogs would open it 2N. My 2nd choice is a 3♥ rebid.

Your evaluation has been perfect - why would you disturb 3N?

[neilkaz]

Having bid 2NT with this flat balanced hand with weakish ♥ I certainly leave 3NT in. My hand will benefit from some leads as well. I also agree with the 2NT call.

.. neilkaz ..

[VM1973]

I have no idea because I don't know what the scoring is.

[mikeh]

I may have lived a sheltered life, but in the past 30 years (I've been playing longer, but earlier bidding decisions are largely and fortunately lost in the mists of time) I have had a partner bid 2N with 4 card support precisely once, and it didn't end happily...altho I understood the call then and understand it with this hand.

The reason it didn't end happily when it did occur was that partner felt compelled to bid 4♥ over my 3N, and we found the game that failed rather than the cold 3N (our hearts were weak and the suit broke 4-1).

This hand looks remarkably like that hand did....and I would happily pass 3N. If we wanted to be in a 4=4 4♥ game, we shouldn't, imo, have bid 2N.

I think this is true at all forms of scoring. While the 4=4 is often expected to generate an extra trick, suggesting we'd maybe want to be in hearts at mps or bam, as against that we have 4333 shape so aren't ruffing anything in our hand, we have strong chances of having 2 stops in each side suit, thus not needing and possibly not being able to ruff any loser in dummy, and on this kind of layout, 9 tricks may be the limit in either denomination.

[aguahombre]

I don't use 2NT as this type of conventional rebid; but if it is your agreement, why would you now want to over-ride your partner's choice which was based on that agreement? Thus, passing seems mandatory.

And if the OP has some additional information not yet revealed to us, like responder failed to alert 2NT, then passing is mandatory.

[whereagles]

2NT is ok. Now stick with it and pass 3NT.

[daveharty]

VM1973, on 2011-September-30, 11:12, said:

I have no idea because I don't know what the scoring is.

Matchpoints.

[daveharty]

I don't really get why people think that 1C-1H-4H "shows" this hand. I know that the book meaning for the 4M rebid is (or, as Phil points out, at least "was") a balanced 18-19 with 4 trumps--but to me this hand with zero ruffing potential and so much beef outside just screamed notrump. The reason I asked about the possibility of correcting to 4H is that partner told me after the hand about another partner of his, who makes the "value" rebid of 2NT with such hands but then corrects to 4H (apparently to distinguish such hands from lower-HCP/higher-playing strength hands with which he rebids 4H directly), and I wondered if anyone else played something like this.

At the table I passed 3NT and South led a club. The 1968 bidders were definitely right on this one:

---

[Fluffy]

I'm late but I would rebid 2NT everyday of the week except if partner is a passed hand.

Since I rebid 2NT routinelly for the past 10 years I can tell you that 4♥ bid is also routine and a no brainer. No need for partner to be unbalanced, most 4432 will also play better in hearts.


EDIT: partner is a passed hand, no need to show this hand, slam is not an option, so just bid 4♥ directly. I haven't ever bid 3♥ with a balanced hand but if phil says its an olption then perhaps it is.

[aguahombre]

What your partner's other partner does merely means they probably shouldn't be using the 2NT rebid in this way. If 2NT is an either-or bid which might not have 4 hearts, that just seems unworkable.

If your rebid as East showed a balanced 4-heart raise, then 3NT by West is from another planet. The apparent value of the 2NT rebid as you play it is to choose the strain; West allegedly chose.

[han]

I rebid 3D on this hand, a good 3H raise. 4H seems too much on a hand this bad.

In the Netherlands it is "standard" to bid 2NT with 4-card support.

[mike777]

daveharty, on 2011-September-30, 07:18, said:

---

Agree or disagree with 2NT? Now do you pass or correct to 4H?

EDIT: Matchpoints

Given OP I pass now.
--

Prfer 3h



6.5 ltc so 3h nonforce seems fine will pass 3nt or 4h by pard


at this vul over 1c pard could have close to zero hcp and knows there is a game bonus if he has anything.

[Hanoi5]

Phil, on 2011-September-30, 09:15, said:

If I am playing with someone that learned bridge in 1968, then 4♥ over 1♥ does indeed show this hand.

The modern style, and it it isn't that modern is that responder doesn't promise a six count, and a balanced hand with 18-19 and no shortness rebids 3M over 1M. A jump to 4M shows a lot of playing strength, but isn't as strong as a splinter or 4m. There are some 19's and some 5422's 18's that you need to shove into game, so sometimes you need to invent a splinter on Kx, or a jump shift, or do something else.

Agree with the 2N rebid, even though some handhogs would open it 2N. My 2nd choice is a 3♥ rebid.

Your evaluation has been perfect - why would you disturb 3N?

Since I learned bridge 11 years before being born I'd like to know which books, resources, etc teach this 1x-1♥-3♥ as 18-19 balanced. It's just to get in touch with modern bridge and to find out what they do with 15-17 unbalanced and 4-card support for hearts.

han, on 2011-October-01, 15:32, said:

I rebid 3D on this hand, a good 3H raise. 4H seems too much on a hand this bad.

In the Netherlands it is "standard" to bid 2NT with 4-card support.

I had seen LOL's bidding 2NT with 4-card support and 18-19 and thought it was some sort of aberration from them or from their teachers. What's the rest of the structure?

[whereagles]

Well, I've learned that

1m-1M-2M = min 12-14, may be unbalanced
1m-1M-3M = med 15-17, unbalanced, as balanced opens 1NT
1m-1M-4M = max 18-19, may be unbalanced

[ArtK78]

whereagles, on 2011-October-01, 17:02, said:

Well, I've learned that

1m-1M-2M = min 12-14, may be unbalanced
1m-1M-3M = med 15-17, unbalanced, as balanced opens 1NT
1m-1M-4M = max 18-19, may be unbalanced

Agree.

I would have rebid 4♥ over 1♥. And I didn't start playing bridge until 1972.