BBO Discussion Forums: What kind of hand does this show - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

What kind of hand does this show

#1 User is offline   inquiry 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 14,564
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amelia Island, FL
  • Interests:Bridge, what else?

Posted 2011-September-29, 10:45

2* - (pass) - pass - (X)
XX

I don't run into this auction every day. 2 was weak (5-10 hcp), double was takeout. What was redouble? A secondary question to which I know for me, a pass by 2nd seat immedately over the redouble would be business for me (meta rule) to prevent a psychic redouble.

Can someone suggest a few hands opener could hold consistent with this bidding?
--Ben--

#2 User is offline   aguahombre 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,029
  • Joined: 2009-February-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St. George, UT

Posted 2011-September-29, 11:23

1.The 2H opener doesn't know about your meta-rule (and mine).
2.His partner has seen the redouble before. We could ask, because it is so abnormal the question would be expected by pard whether you have the meta rule or not.
3.2H itself was an operation with everything but hearts?
4.He had a blue card mixed in with his green ones.

Any, or all of the above. If they have discussed it, are are hoping pass would be misinterpreted by the opponents, it could be used for "don't lead a heart".

Is MickyB involved?

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2011-September-29, 11:51

"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
0

#3 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2011-September-29, 11:55

The only meta-rule you need here is "undiscussed bids are natural". So good solid suit, max hand (maybe even over max).

AJx
KQJTxx
x
xxx

You could say this is a 1H opener (and I would agree), but not all think that way.
0

#4 User is offline   aguahombre 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,029
  • Joined: 2009-February-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St. George, UT

Posted 2011-September-29, 12:13

Op's meta rules is about the pass of the redouble, Mr. Eagle.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
0

#5 User is offline   fromageGB 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,618
  • Joined: 2008-April-06

Posted 2011-September-29, 12:24

View Postwhereagles, on 2011-September-29, 11:55, said:

The only meta-rule you need here is "undiscussed bids are natural". So good solid suit, max hand (maybe even over max).

AJx
KQJTxx
x
xxx

You could say this is a 1H opener (and I would agree), but not all think that way.

I agree with this, but for the example hand would reverse the pointy suits. I opened a weak 2 last night with >10 count good suit rather than a one bid, simply to make it harder for opps to find a higher ranking fit (admittedly after partner had passed).

Having said that, redouble seems pointless, probably an automatic reflex by a rubber bridge player.
0

#6 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2011-September-29, 12:59

I have thought about this sequence, and I like the idea of it showing a two-suiter. For example, I would like to redouble in this sequence with x KQJxx xx Kxxxx. This is wonderful if partner is 4-1-4-4 as an escape route, but it also allows partner to make aggressive competitive calls, expecting a strong PLAYING STRENGTH hand (note that the example hand is arguably a six-loser hand).
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

#7 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2011-September-29, 13:48

With a 2-suiter you can self-escape to 3C, no?
0

#8 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2011-September-29, 13:56

View Postwhereagles, on 2011-September-29, 13:48, said:

With a 2-suiter you can self-escape to 3C, no?

Sure -- that makes a lot of sense. I "self-escape" into a 5-1 fit, forcing partner to return to our normal 5-3 fit, which goes down one.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

#9 User is offline   pooltuna 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,814
  • Joined: 2009-July-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Orleans

Posted 2011-September-29, 14:16

assuming this was a first seat 2 bid, my recommendation is that you give up playing games at the Bedlam Bridge Club :) . otherwise I would expect the opp to have essentially an unfinesseable suit (i.e. solid but not necessarily A high)
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

George Bernard Shaw
0

#10 User is offline   gwnn 

  • Csaba the Hutt
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,004
  • Joined: 2006-June-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:bye

Posted 2011-September-29, 15:20

good maximum. maybe better to play as good hearts, you can lead them pard (or bad hearts? that sounds a bit risky in this particular case).
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
0

#11 User is offline   manudude03 

  • - - A AKQJT9876543
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,582
  • Joined: 2007-October-02
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-September-30, 03:49

I play it as a super-maximum with extra offence, something like void AQJxxx xxx QT9x
Wayne Somerville
0

#12 User is offline   aguahombre 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,029
  • Joined: 2009-February-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St. George, UT

Posted 2011-September-30, 06:26

View Postmanudude03, on 2011-September-30, 03:49, said:

I play it as a super-maximum with extra offence, something like void AQJxxx xxx QT9x

You play it a lot?
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
0

#13 User is offline   manudude03 

  • - - A AKQJT9876543
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,582
  • Joined: 2007-October-02
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-September-30, 06:53

As far as I can recall, I've only done it once, and it ended up +960 :P (it wasn't quite the same, 2S-P-3S-X-XX)
Wayne Somerville
0

#14 User is offline   Gerben42 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,577
  • Joined: 2005-March-01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Erlangen, Germany
  • Interests:Astronomy, Mathematics
    Nuclear power

Posted 2011-October-01, 13:36

It shows doubt that opponents will know what they are doing after the redouble :)
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!
My Bridge Systems Page

BC Kultcamp Rieneck
0

#15 User is offline   Phil 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,091
  • Joined: 2008-December-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas, USA
  • Interests:Mountain Biking

Posted 2011-October-01, 13:49

The only logical use for me is that this not only shows a stellar suit, but also a max and a 2nd place to play: AQJTxx x xx Qxxx?

I would never redouble ATT.
Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
0

#16 User is offline   Phil 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,091
  • Joined: 2008-December-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas, USA
  • Interests:Mountain Biking

Posted 2011-October-01, 13:51

View Postkenrexford, on 2011-September-29, 13:56, said:

Sure -- that makes a lot of sense. I "self-escape" into a 5-1 fit, forcing partner to return to our normal 5-3 fit, which goes down one.


When partner doesn't raise the first time? And TYP for not really telling me what your 2nd suit is when I have to make a decision at the four level.
Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
0

#17 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2011-October-01, 14:36

View Postkenrexford, on 2011-September-29, 13:56, said:

Sure -- that makes a lot of sense. I "self-escape" into a 5-1 fit, forcing partner to return to our normal 5-3 fit, which goes down one.


Of course it makes sense. If the side fit turns out to be a 5-1 you get back to the 5-3 one. If something, you'll go an extra down; a small price to pay for the times you get out of trouble.
0

#18 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2011-October-01, 17:09

Redouble with 5-5 allows 3 or 3 as a natural 6-4, which is more common. Bidding 3 or 3 with the 5-5 hands means that you cannot show both.

If you really want to show the specific minor immediately and see no risk in forcing the three-level OR see only some risk, then:

2-P-P-X-3 = 6/4
2-P-P-X-3 = 6/4
2-P-P-X-2NT = 5/5
2-P-P-X-XX = 5/5
2-P-P-X-2 = 0634/0643

So, there!
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

#19 User is offline   jmcw 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 662
  • Joined: 2008-October-15

Posted 2011-October-01, 18:20

View Postwhereagles, on 2011-September-29, 13:48, said:

With a 2-suiter you can self-escape to 3C, no?

Agree! seems easy to escape! 2 or 2NT or whatever
0

#20 User is offline   MrAce 

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,971
  • Joined: 2009-November-14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX

Posted 2011-October-01, 21:25

View Postkenrexford, on 2011-October-01, 17:09, said:

Redouble with 5-5 allows 3 or 3 as a natural 6-4, which is more common. Bidding 3 or 3 with the 5-5 hands means that you cannot show both.

If you really want to show the specific minor immediately and see no risk in forcing the three-level OR see only some risk, then:



How can a weak 2 opener possibly decide any of these, or assess the risks by himself, after pd already passed and his RHO Doubled ?

View Postkenrexford, on 2011-October-01, 17:09, said:


2-P-P-X-3 = 6/4
2-P-P-X-3 = 6/4
2-P-P-X-2NT = 5/5
2-P-P-X-XX = 5/5
2-P-P-X-2 = 0634/0643

So, there!


How about a meta agreements that says, "if weak opener can not live with his own initial decision of making a weak opening and wants to take an unexpected action when he literally knows NOTHING about his pd's hand, he should not open/ open something else at the first place ?
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





0

Share this topic:


  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users