[1eyedjack]

What is the standard, these days, among good players playing a natural system, for a jump overcall in the pass-out seat after LHO has opened 1-suit, pass, pass to you?
What is the impact of vul, type of scoring, and whether your jump is in a minor, a major, or at the 2 or 3 level?
As an example, you are vul v non vul, and it goes 1D-P-P to you. Thoughts on 3C with
♠KT97
♥-
♦AQ3
♣AKT943

[Vampyr]

1eyedjack, on 2011-September-28, 11:56, said:

Thoughts on 3C with
♠KT97
♥-
♦AQ3
♣AKT943

The problem with 3♣ is that it will often bury the spade suit. Double will probably work better.

[chasetb]

Playing natural systems has nothing to do with overcalls. I play jumps in the passout seat as an Intermediate Jump Overcall, showing roughly 13-16 HCP. If it's at the 2-level, it is usually 6 cards, occasionally 7. At the 3-level, I expect 7, though occasionally a really good 6-bagger can and should be bid. With that hand, I would bid 2♣ in a heartbeat, though I would be wishing I could show the Spades as well. Why couldn't I play top-bottom cuebids just this one time?

[ggwhiz]

In general it should show a hand that would open 1 of that suit and jump to 3 of it after a response. That follows after 1♦ - p - p - 2♠ as well for my partnership.

3♣ here is right on strength and suit but risks losing a spade fit or missing 3nt when pard can't cater to our ♦ holding.

There is no good answer but I might double (yuk!) despite the ♥ void and hope to keep both black suits and 3nt in play.

[JLOGIC]

Just double, our hand is potentially too good for 3C (depending largely on how well we fit), and it's too good for spades.

Doubling and bidding clubs is fine on values, keeps everything in play, keeps the auction lower, etc. Partner did not overcall 1H or 2H or 3H, so there is very little risk in him going crazy in hearts.

[kenrexford]

Clearly, leaping intermediate canape is what you SHOULD be playing here. 2♠ showing extras with four spades and six or more clubs.

Seriously, though, there might be something to be said for devising a new and improved balancing approach for auctions that start one-of-a-minor, pass, pass. These auctions are similar to 1NT-P-P-?, with more space.

Let's see...

After either minor, pass, pass, ?

2♣ = one-suited intermediate jump; partner bids 2♦ for the suit; bid the major or 2NT with the other minor and a stopper, or three of the minor
2♦ = majors, intermediate
2♥ = ♥+other minor, intermediate
2♠ = ♠+other minor, intermediate

If Opener's suit was diamonds:

2NT = clubs with four hearts
3♣ = clubs with four spades

If Opener's suit was clubs:

2NT = both minors
3♣ = diamonds with four hearts
3♦ = diamonds with four spades

Hmmmm...

The obvious risk is interference after the one-suited calls. One might use an alternative of 2M as one-suited, bidding 2♣ with one major and the other minor (2♦ asking for the major), and just bid 3minor with a one-suited minor, stopper or no. That at least limits the unknown hands somewhat if Opener interjects.

[1eyedjack]

Would it make a difference to any of your replies if you swap the majors?

[JLOGIC]

1eyedjack, on 2011-September-28, 14:34, said:

Would it make a difference to any of your replies if you swap the majors?

no

[Zelandakh]

Ken, would it not make sense to switch 2D and 2H in your scheme over 1C? This enables you to get out at the 2 level with more hands. Over 1D an option might be to move both majors to 3D and then we can keep a natural 2C, with 1-suited in a major bumped up to 2D. We can do a similar thing over 1C too but it does not give a big advantage except for consistency with 1C.

I am also not so sure about your use of 2NT here - surely we need this as natural in 4th seat?

So, summarising the alternatives

Over 1C
=======
2C = ijo in any suit
2D = D + H
2H = H + S
2S = S + D
2N = nat
3C = spare

or

2C = ijo in a major
2D = ijo
2H = H + D
2S = S + D
2N = nat
3C = S + H


Over 1D
=======
2C = nat
2D = ijo in a major
2H = H + C
2S = S + C
2N = nat
3C = ijo
3D = S + H

Looking over this, it resembles quite closely the scheme I play in 2nd seat, which is:-

1m
==
jump om = nat
2m = either major or S + om, strong
2H = H + S, weak
2S = S + om, weak
2N = H + om
3m = H + S, strong

The big change is that the 2 lowest suits have moved from 2NT to 2H in order to accomodate 2NT being natural, and that we no longer need weak vs strong ranges. Playing these 2 schemes in parallel seems to be quite workable without a big increase in memory load.

[whereagles]

Most play these jump overcalls as intermediate. The standards as to point range vary considerably. For instance, above the range 13-16 was mentioned whereas where I play 10-13 is more common.

With the actual hand dbl is preferable, even playing heavy jump overcalls.

[kenrexford]

Zelandakh, on 2011-September-29, 04:10, said:

Ken, would it not make sense to switch 2D and 2H in your scheme over 1C? This enables you to get out at the 2 level with more hands. Over 1D an option might be to move both majors to 3D and then we can keep a natural 2C, with 1-suited in a major bumped up to 2D. We can do a similar thing over 1C too but it does not give a big advantage except for consistency with 1C.

I am also not so sure about your use of 2NT here - surely we need this as natural in 4th seat?

So, summarising the alternatives

Over 1C
=======
2C = ijo in any suit
2D = D + H
2H = H + S
2S = S + D
2N = nat
3C = spare

or

2C = ijo in a major
2D = ijo
2H = H + D
2S = S + D
2N = nat
3C = S + H


Over 1D
=======
2C = nat
2D = ijo in a major
2H = H + C
2S = S + C
2N = nat
3C = ijo
3D = S + H

Looking over this, it resembles quite closely the scheme I play in 2nd seat, which is:-

1m
==
jump om = nat
2m = either major or S + om, strong
2H = H + S, weak
2S = S + om, weak
2N = H + om
3m = H + S, strong

The big change is that the 2 lowest suits have moved from 2NT to 2H in order to accomodate 2NT being natural, and that we no longer need weak vs strong ranges. Playing these 2 schemes in parallel seems to be quite workable without a big increase in memory load.

Nice, but you lose the canape hands. The strong balanced hand can be handled by double; if partner passes you are +1400 or more.