[jillybean]

1♠:1NT* forcing
4♥ Opener has 5-card S and 6-card H (min hand 10-12)


1♠:1NT
2♦:2♠ Could be 2 or 3 card support with 4-7hcp
2NT Opener shows intermediate hand 16-17


Comments?

[mike777]

jillybean, on 2011-September-15, 00:25, said:

1♠:1NT* forcing
4♥ Opener has 5-card S and 6-card H (min hand 10-12)


1♠:1NT
2♦:2♠ Could be 2 or 3 card support with 4-7hcp
2NT Opener shows intermediate hand 16-17


Comments?

I play option two very often...but perhaps not as exact as you do. My style responder can have a wider hand but....not easy....I play responder could have much more but again not easy......an ugly..ugly auction...



dont know example one.

[mich-b]

jillybean, on 2011-September-15, 00:25, said:

1♠:1NT* forcing
4♥ Opener has 5-card S and 6-card H (min hand 10-12)

f

I don't think a 5-6 hand with 10-12 is strong enough to insist on playing game. You will just go down too often. On most hands where you can make game , pd will bid again after your 2♥ rebid - either 3♥ or 2NT or perhaps 2♠.

jillybean, on 2011-September-15, 00:25, said:

1♠:1NT
2♦:2♠ Could be 2 or 3 card support with 4-7hcp
2NT Opener shows intermediate hand 16-17

Isn't this the normal meaning for this bid?

[Free]

Treatment 1 strikes me as very odd. It's just a hand that opens 1♥ instead of 1♠, and isn't strong enough to force to game. Play Gazzilli and you can even bid 1♥-1NT-2♠ with minimum 6♥-5♠. A much better treatment imo.

Treatment 2 is standard if I read it correctly. The 4-7HCP is only relevant for 3 card support right? With doubleton you can have up to 9 or 10HCP.

[Zelandakh]

Free, on 2011-September-15, 02:10, said:

Treatment 1 strikes me as very odd. It's just a hand that opens 1♥ instead of 1♠, and isn't strong enough to force to game. Play Gazzilli and you can even bid 1♥-1NT-2♠ with minimum 6♥-5♠. A much better treatment imo.

Before Gazilli, some played a jump reverse, 1H - 1NT; 3S as showing this hand - very distributional but too weak in hcp for a reverse. I am not sure it was a good method but it was reasonably common. I am not sure what the difference is in Treatment 2 from standard. Even when not playing constructive raises this is the normal meaning, no?

[Free]

Zelandakh, on 2011-September-15, 02:41, said:

Before Gazilli, some played a jump reverse, 1H - 1NT; 3S as showing this hand - very distributional but too weak in hcp for a reverse. I am not sure it was a good method but it was reasonably common.

I heard of that treatment, at least it's a little bit better because you don't commit to game (you can still play 3♠). Obviously you can always just open 1♥ and rebid 2♥, it's not that big of a problem.

[jillybean]

Free, on 2011-September-15, 02:10, said:

Treatment 1 strikes me as very odd. It's just a hand that opens 1♥ instead of 1♠, and isn't strong enough to force to game. Play Gazzilli and you can even bid 1♥-1NT-2♠ with minimum 6♥-5♠. A much better treatment imo.

Treatment 2 is standard if I read it correctly. The 4-7HCP is only relevant for 3 card support right? With doubleton you can have up to 9 or 10HCP.

Thanks, I will read up on Gazzilli http://freebridge.bl...8/gazzilli.html
Playing Gazzilli we lose the ability to play in a minor at the 2 level since 2♣ rebid by opener is now forcing? But I like the look of the rest of it

& yes, you can have up to 9-10 and doubleton for #2

[jillybean]

On the second treatment what is

1♠:1N
2♦:2♠
3♠ - holding 6♠'s I would have responded 2♠/1N

[Free]

jillybean, on 2011-September-15, 07:11, said:

Thanks, I will read up on Gazzilli http://freebridge.bl...8/gazzilli.html
Playing Gazzilli we lose the ability to play in a minor at the 2 level since 2♣ rebid by opener is now forcing? But I like the look of the rest of it

You can't play 2m if opener rebids 2♣ (well, in practice you can pass 2♣ if you have 0HCP and were hoping for a stong partner). However, he can also rebid 2♦ which you can pass.

[Zelandakh]

Would you really have rebid 2S with 6 spades, 4 diamonds and 16hcp? In American bridge I understand it is traditional to rebid the major with 6-4 weak (ie bid 6-6-4) and to rebid the minor and repeat the major on the 3rd round with a better hand (6-4-6). This is not how I learned it this side of the pond though...

[jillybean]

Zelandakh, on 2011-September-15, 08:13, said:

Would you really have rebid 2S with 6 spades, 4 diamonds and 16hcp? In American bridge I understand it is traditional to rebid the major with 6-4 weak (ie bid 6-6-4) and to rebid the minor and repeat the major on the 3rd round with a better hand (6-4-6). This is not how I learned it this side of the pond though...

There likely won't be a 3rd round after 1M:1N* 2D, with 16 points and 6 spades I would consider 3♠. I don't know if this is
standard, or best.

[jmcw]

jillybean, on 2011-September-15, 00:25, said:

1♠:1NT
2♦:2♠ Could be 2 or 3 card support with 4-7hcp
2NT Opener shows intermediate hand 16-17

mich-b, on 2011-September-15, 01:08, said:

Isn't this the normal meaning for this bid?

Not for me. With 4 points my default is pass, when I correct back to opener's Major I could have as much as 10 with a dub.
Bidding 2NT with a good 16-17 is about right, showing 5242 shape. But I think this a low % call with many random 16/17.

[olien]

Just play flannery for option 1

[Gerben42]

I would open 1♥ and rebid 3♠ with the first hand type.

[han]

jillybean, on 2011-September-15, 07:33, said:

On the second treatment what is

1♠:1N
2♦:2♠
3♠ - holding 6♠'s I would have responded 2♠/1N

With 6-4 I think it is generally better to bid your second suit. If partner shows preference to 2S then you can show extras by bidding 3S.

AQ10xxx
Kx
AQxx
x

If you bid this way partner will have a very good idea of which cards are useful for 4S and which are not.