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What is the correct response?

#1 User is offline   richrf 

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Posted 2011-August-31, 18:49

Hi all,

This is my second question on the forum. :)

Opener bids 1

Responder holds: KQxx QJ KJxxxx 10

Thanks for the advice.

Rich
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#2 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-August-31, 19:53

If 2/1 commits us to game, I would prefer to show the six card club suit rather than the stiff diamond.

Just my opinion; will let others pronounce what is "correct".
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#3 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2011-August-31, 20:00

4!
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

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#4 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2011-August-31, 21:14

I prefer 2nt no doubt followed by 4 but know that is a minority view.

Change the to Ax or Kx and 4 becomes more attractive.
When a deaf person goes to court is it still called a hearing?
What is baby oil made of?
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#5 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-August-31, 21:22

View Postggwhiz, on 2011-August-31, 21:14, said:

I prefer 2nt no doubt followed by 4 but know that is a minority view.

I think you must have some different follow-ups to J2N which make that bid attractive in your partnerships. Just an observation. We often bad-mouth someone's choices without understanding the context they are working within.

However, in general, it would seem that the hand which is going to come down in dummy should be the one which is known..as opposed to the opponents knowing more about declarer's hand than they need to; bringing us back to a choice between the suit and the splinter.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2011-August-31, 21:30

"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#6 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2011-August-31, 21:38

View Postaguahombre, on 2011-August-31, 21:22, said:

I think you must have some different follow-ups to J2N which make that bid attractive in your partnerships.


Very true. We have minimum control agreements for splinters that this doesn't fit.

What do you do after a splinter when pard bids 4 hearts? OK, 4 spades(maybe) pard continues with something..... Seems like we have mapped the defence here too.

We need a clearcut (mandatory) cue and not 1st OR 2nd or we don't splinter. Easy to forget and every time we do it's a bottom.

Interesting hand Rich cause I'm certainly not on firm ground.
When a deaf person goes to court is it still called a hearing?
What is baby oil made of?
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#7 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2011-September-01, 02:01

Hi,

4D.

If the hand fits your splinter agreement, make the splinter.

Standard agreement set seems to be

#1 at least 4 card support
#2 12-15 HCP

how far away is this from the given hand.

Since we talk about a 4D instead of a 4H splinter, opener has a bid av.
to show / deny SI, which means that the splinter definition can be wider.
........................................................................
An alternative option is to bid a 3D mini splinter.
A minisplinter eiter showes a 8 looser hand or a hand with 6 or less loosers.

I never played mini splinters, but as far as can make it out, minisplinter
are as good / as useless as any other agreement for 3D - of course I am just
talking about the agreements I know.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#8 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-September-01, 03:58

2C for me. I thought of a splinter of course, but the Cs are too much of a source of tricks to by pass them.
2NT is not for me unless I have an ultra whizz bang responding system to that and I don't as i do not play 2NT Jacoby.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#9 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-September-01, 05:09

I don't have a preference between 2 and 4. The biggest drawback of the splinter is that you won't know if partner has some support, so perhaps 2 is slightly better.
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#10 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-September-01, 10:48

Given the bad hcp placement in hearts, I think a splinter is a better representation of the hand than a 2/1, so I bid that.
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#11 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-September-01, 11:00

View Postwhereagles, on 2011-September-01, 10:48, said:

Given the bad hcp placement in hearts, I think a splinter is a better representation of the hand than a 2/1, so I bid that.

I don't understand the reasoning. If you have crud in one rounded suit, and a lengthy trick source in the other, how does that favor splintering rather than bidding the suit you have length in? Just asking.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#12 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2011-September-01, 11:51

Minor Quibble......please list the suits in the 'normal' sequence, with clubs last, if not using a hand diagram. Not a big deal, but my initial reaction was that we were 4=2=6=1.

As for the problem, I think that 2 is the correct bid, simply because we have a potential source of tricks, and we'd like partner to upgrade hands containing club honours, which he will do if we show the suit.

I don't know about SAYC, and don't know what method you are playing, but I intend to bid clubs and then, if partner rebids spades, to splinter in diamonds....which really focuses on his hearts and club fit. If he dosen't rebid 2, I will show my spade support cheaply and see what happens (I am assuming that my spade support will be forcing, as it would be were we playing, for example, 2/1 gf).

I don't splinter...I don't like concealing 6 card suits. I certainly don't use J2N, no matter what my response structure is...this doesn't feel like a hand on which to assume captaincy this early.
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#13 User is offline   wyman 

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Posted 2011-September-01, 11:59

A case can be made for a game-forcing and natural 2C or for a 4D splinter. I'll bid 2C since after this (and after I support spades next, partner will be better suited to evaluate our prospects for slam, if he has such a hand. Admittedly, I'd like to show him the 4th trump right now (which a splinter would accomplish), but we can't have it all, I suppose.
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#14 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2011-September-01, 12:09

Let's review what "you" don't like about the 4! splinter:
1) Shows an immediate "minimum" GF raise with at least 4 cards but not a powerhouse ( with a stronger hand I would Jac2NT even with shortness ).
2) A stiff so Opener can evaluate wastage;
3) 8 cards ( maybe 7 ) in the rounded suits with "stuff" in them for the GF raise.

If Partner next cuebids 4 ( over 4 ), that's all I need to hear -- I'm going 4NT-RKC .
Don Stenmark
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"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
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#15 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-September-01, 12:24

View PostTWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-September-01, 12:09, said:

If Partner next cuebids 4 ( over 4 ), that's all I need to hear -- I'm going 4NT-RKC .

4 may be last train without a cue, another reason not to splinter. :)
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#16 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2011-September-01, 13:57

OK... how about an Upper Bergen ( limit ) Raise w/4+cards ?
1S - 3D!
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
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#17 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2011-September-01, 14:52

View PostTWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-September-01, 13:57, said:

OK... how about an Upper Bergen ( limit ) Raise w/4+cards ?
1S - 3D!

Huh? First you want to splinter as a prelude to keycard if he squeaks over the splinter, and now you want to merely invite game? I understand that you presumably intend to raise a signoff to game, but don't you think that these views are a tad inconsistent?
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#18 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2011-September-01, 15:01

View Postrichrf, on 2011-August-31, 18:49, said:

Hi all,

This is my second question on the forum. :)

Opener bids 1

Responder holds: KQxx QJ KJxxxx 10

Thanks for the advice.

Rich


Welcome to the forums, great question.


ON going debate does one set trumps and show 4 card support and if so how first or show a possible source of tricks with 2c.

I prefer to show a 4 card raise now. I can live with 2nt(bergen) my first choice or splinter.
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#19 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2011-September-01, 15:59

View Postmikeh, on 2011-September-01, 14:52, said:

Huh? First you want to splinter as a prelude to keycard if he squeaks over the splinter, and now you want to merely invite game? I understand that you presumably intend to raise a signoff to game, but don't you think that these views are a tad inconsistent?


I was just showing another 4 card raise option.

I'm always leery of the "source of tricks" option ( even though it is GF ) because I can never prove to partner later that I have 4 card support.
Then there is the "interference" factor:
1S - ( p ) - 2C! - ( 3D )
p - ( 5D ) - ??

As noted, 4D! is my first choice.
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
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#20 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-September-01, 19:56

Interesting - if my clubs were a lot stronger I'd opt for 2N. If my clubs were a lot weaker, I'd choose the splinter.

Since club support looks like pretty good news for this had, I'll bid 2.
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