[helium]

Hi
im interesset to find out how you behave in a bbo-indy when you face a beginner partner, pls be honest in your answers.


Let me give you ZIAs tips on how to get the best results in a rubber/indy game:



PARNERING THE BEST PLAYER, (THE KING):

1.Never gloat over good results.inevitably the better your parnership,the more u will win.
2.Give hime the opportunity to put his skills to work,i.e let him play the hand.
3.Bid soundly so that he can rely on you.
4.Follow his defence when u are in any doubt.
5.Double the opps more often-you can rely on getting the best defence.
6.Overbid in close situasjons when he play the cand.
7.Dont be intiminated by him, his your best friend.
8."pass" the crutial dissitons to him,especially at high levels,unless u know what to do.
9.dont argu whit him-chances are his right.
10.WATHC HIM AND LEARN


PARTNERING WHIT A BAD PLAYER, (GODZILLA)

1.Dont give him lessions.if he wanted them he`d go to a bridge school.
2.Avoid the possibillyty of accsidents,a small pe\rofit is better than a big loss.
dont go for the best possible result,the best result possible should be your target.
3.Get an ide of his style,compensating for an under or overbidder.
are his pennalty doubles sound?if so leave them in
4.Bid simply: and go out of your way to indicate the right lead.
5.Take control:make the key dissitions for him,even when technically this isnt the best aproath.HOG THE HAND
6.Give very loud singnals in defence: give him signposts to follow.
7.false-card whit the low cards to fool a good player,your partner isnt watching anyway.
8.protect him from tough opps, building a fence-even a trap-around him.
9.if u must loose,do it gracefully.
10.try harder:dont give up just becouse you are the underdog.



PLAYING AGANINS THE BAD PLAYER(GODZILLA)

1.GIve him leeway on revokes,bids out of turne,exposed cards.you want to beat him not murder him-and you have enough advantages allready.
2.Never forget his going to be your partner in the next robber.
3.Bad players expects to go down and give up easily,so penalty double at the sligthest excuse when his playing the hand
4.Allow him to do misstakes:dont get in his way
5:Understand his style and use it against him.for example,compete more if he dosent double
6.Give him high level dissisons.you know hi have poor judgement,let him use it
7.singnal as mutch as you like when his declearer,he wont be watching
8.play honour cards through him,hill always cover if he can.
9.Keep him on lead,hill find the wrong one
10.push him around at partscore level.



I think this is great tips in a rubbergame:)) but maybe not in a bbo indy.

what do you think?


how do you behave? pls vote and explane:))


kenneth


ps let me finnish whit a godzilla hand:)

Scoring: IMP

Bidding whent 2cl-pass-2di-pass-4nt-pass-5he-pass-7nt-x-all pass

---

South ment 4 nt as blackwood.but north tought -corectly-as there had been no suit agreement -it was natural showing a balanced hand of 28-30 pts, and hi bid his suit.
south thinking that his p have shown 2 aces bid a rapid 7nt!!
Godzilla finnaly saw a contact he knew he could beat and doubled.
Godzilla is well read,nearly every authority tell you to lead fourh highest from ur longest and strongest suit so he followed instruktions and led....the 2 of harts!!!

south played dummys king and ran all his minor winners, at trick 11,godzilla had to choose between discarding hi ace of spades ao his ace of harts.
He looked arownd vainly for inspiration,he looked for the answer at the ceiling,he searched for it om all the walls,even on the carpet and under the table.
but finnaly he guessed wrongly and trew the ace of spades.
7nt doubled and made!
no wounder we call him Godzilla:)))

[Free]

In indi tourneys I usually play as I normally do, since that's agressive enough Preempting with 5 card suit, psyching, agressive support on preempts, destructive bidding from time to time,...

However, I'm always afraid if some "expert" sits in front of me cause 75% of the time they suck.

[Dwayne]

I adopt the same principles playing with a novice in a BBO tourney as I would with a client. You have to bid and play soundly, lest you put confusing thoughts in their head.

But at the same time business is business and sometimes you have to engineer the auction so the stronger hand is declarer. Some might call it hand-hogging, other might call it maximising your chances for a good board.

I think a good ethos is never offer advise at the table after a hand unless it's solicited. Then I'd wait until the end of the round or perhaps p.m. the partner at the end of the event.

Dwayne-e-poos (lacking the social graces for anything above a 72 today)

[helene_t]

Two comments:
1) I heard from a colleague who is in training to become a clinical psychologist, that such a question should be frazed "what do you consider the right thing to do?" rather than "what would you actually do?", because it's easier to give an honest answer to the first one. If you really want an answer to the second question, you should observe people's behavior rather than asking them.
2) Usually I have no idea what the skills of my partner are and if we understand each others styles and conventions.

[Gerben47]

Dwayne you talk about playing with a client.
Do you think the goal is to win when playing with a client or to actually try to play bridge so that they might learn something?

An example, you have:
♠ Axxx
♥ Qxxx
♦ Qxx
♣ Qx

You are playing an individual against two experts with a terrible player.
Even more so, RHO is your regular partner. The vulnerability is the only thing that is favorable.

"Partner" opens 1♣, RHO doubles.
So the question is, in an individual what is your bid, and playing with a client in a normal MP tournament would you make the same bid?
I think in the individual you should bid 1NT and with the client 1♥. Do you agree?

[Free]

No

[inquiry]

I agree that a very good player should play differently with a client (unless client is really student) versus a novice.

When playing with a client, do what you can to win, taking your partner's abilities and/or lack of them, into consideration. When playing iwth a novice, play normal bridge. After all, the novice is playing to learn to get better. How can he learn if you are "operating" on everyhand. If you don't want to take time to play normal; bridge with a novice. it would probably be best not to play with them at all. You have to be willing to LOSE and lose badly to play with novices in regular events, and you have to have an ego that a 30% game or minus 49 imps, willl not bruise.

Ben

[the hog]

Agree with Ben. Treat a beginner with respect; let them make some decisions and let them play the hands that belong to them. Don't mastermind.

Don't open 2H on 5 to the T and values in another suit!

[Fluffy]

When you arrange with a new client you always have to make the same question: do you want to win or to learn?, most of wich I know prefer to win!.

[sceptic]

I would have thought most want to learn to win

[Flame]

I play almost normally with a begginer i wont steal games bidding NTs when i shouldnt, but in close decisions i will enter skills into the equation which will make me underbid more often. I will try to take good scores and wont look always for the ultimate scores, i will always try to make things easier for him, its no point playing a genious diffence or bidding a genious bid if partner need to do something he cant.
But in general i just play simple bridge.

[whereagles]

When I play a newbie, unless there's an agreement in advance that I'll play in an educative way, I do whatever it's necessary to win. Most people can't be bothered to learn anyway, so why should I waste my latin on them? They just want to win, and that's what I play for.

In one of S.J. Simon's books, there's a hand similar to the one above. Something like

KJxx
AQxx
QJx
xx

Mrs. Guggenheim opens 1C and her pard, the unlucky expert, bids 1H. SJS comments (free reproduction, can't recall all words exactly):

"The 1H bid, although technically perfect, is absurd opposite this particular partner, which just shows what an a-s-s the man is. The danger of Mrs. Guggenheim bidding 1S or 1NT and go down in a close game is far too great. He should have just taken charge and bid 3NT himself." (Sorry for using a-s-s, but that's literally what the book says )

[jtfanclub]

With a true novice, I bid much more conservatively. I find they're much happier with 2H+1 than 4H-1, and so am I come to think of it.

I also have learned a second rule...if the novice likes a suit, play in it. Because, by God, you're going to play in it unless your suit is higher and you're at the 7 level.

Oh, and last but most important, never force a novice to sacrifice. FTF game many moons ago, bidding goes something like 1H (by P) P 4H (by me) passed out, down three. Partner was almost in tears apologizing. It took me quite some time to explain to her things like vulnerability and that we'd gotten a top board. And we weren't even doubled!

[EricK]

The very question "How do you play with a novice?" implies that beginners are all the same, or at least similar in some important aspect.

I do not think they are.

A far more important distinction than novice/experienced is talented/untalented. Everyone eventually moves from the novice to the eperienced category, but I have never known people move from the untalented to the talented.

I would play the same opposite a talented novice as I would opposite a talented experienced player (although the number of conventions I might agree to play would be lower). And I would play the same opposite an untalented novice as I would opposite an untalented experienced player.

Opposite the talented player I would play what I consider to be my best bridge and not try to mastermind in any way. Opposite the untalented, I would try to minimise our disasters. So if I think the par contract is not our way, I will not attempt to put the opps under any pressure, if there is a danger of partner sacrificing over their "last" guess. Or if slam looks to be good, but requires some play by partner, I will settle for a safe game. Or I wont make a game try which requires partner to exercise judgement, but just make the decision myself.

Opposite a player I do not know. I will assume they are talented to begin with (the triumph of hope over experience ). If I judge that they aren't, then I would switch tactics.

Eric

[helene_t]

Maybe the terms "novice" and "beginner" are unfortunate. How would you rate yourself if you had played for 30 years but still not reached the "intermediate" level?

[Gerben47]

That level is called "eternal beginner".
I'm puzzled how this is possible, but I know several...

[inquiry]

helene_t, on Sep 15 2004, 04:30 AM, said:

Maybe the terms "novice" and "beginner" are unfortunate. How would you rate yourself if you had played for 30 years but still not reached the "intermediate" level?

Add a couple more decades to your 30, and the answer is easy. I would describe that person as my mom.

[cherdano]

helene_t, on Sep 15 2004, 08:30 AM, said:

Maybe the terms "novice" and "beginner" are unfortunate. How would you rate yourself if you had played for 30 years but still not reached the "intermediate" level?

Expert?

[helene_t]

Gerben47, on Sep 15 2004, 11:17 AM, said:

That level is called "eternal beginner".
I'm puzzled how this is possible, but I know several...

Or maybe "recreational player". I'm not so puzzled ....

At most clubs, the schedule is 30 minutes for 4 boards including the time needed to duplicate, score and get drinks. This may be reasonable at a higher level where rutine descions are carried out in less than two seconds, but the average age of the BF's members is 62, and many people need more than 30 seconds to sort their cards and 10 seconds to respond to Stayman. So there is no time for evaluation afterwards, and often not even constructive bidding or planning the play.

The consequence being that you can play 24 boards a week, year after year, litterally without building up any experience at all. What I find strange is that most players are happy that way. Part of the problem is, I think, that people will rather win by bad play than loose by good play. The correlation between good play and good results is too weak to motivate people to play to learn, especially when you're partnering Godzilla. And even when your bad decisions lead to a disaster you can usually convince yourself that it was your partner's fault.

[helium]

helene_t, on Sep 15 2004, 07:02 AM, said:

Gerben47, on Sep 15 2004, 11:17 AM, said:

That level is called "eternal beginner".
I'm puzzled how this is possible, but I know several...

Or maybe "recreational player". I'm not so puzzled ....

At most clubs, the schedule is 30 minutes for 4 boards including the time needed to duplicate, score and get drinks. This may be reasonable at a higher level where rutine descions are carried out in less than two seconds, but the average age of the BF's members is 62, and many people need more than 30 seconds to sort their cards and 10 seconds to respond to Stayman. So there is no time for evaluation afterwards, and often not even constructive bidding or planning the play.

The consequence being that you can play 24 boards a week, year after year, litterally without building up any experience at all. What I find strange is that most players are happy that way. Part of the problem is, I think, that people will rather win by bad play than loose by good play. The correlation between good play and good results is too weak to motivate people to play to learn, especially when you're partnering Godzilla. And even when your bad decisions lead to a disaster you can usually convince yourself that it was your partner's fault.

Offcourse its partners foult. you were doomd the minnut u sat down whit him, you just have to try something,bad luck. lol