[the_dude]

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1st seat, Matchpoints, both sides VUL.

PS: Does your answer change at IMPs?

[jmcw]

I voted no.

I have no problem with the shape or the strength, but I don't like both doubletons to be soft.

I would open 1♣ and rebid a straight forward 3♣

[Phil]

I generally would, but I do this wayyy too often. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

On balance its probably wrong, because:

- I'm not enamored with playing 2♥ when partner transfers.
- I doubt I'm going to like 1N very much if it goes whistle and we have an open red suit.
- I'd like to hear if LHO is going to overcall 1♦ or 1♥ before I jump into the NT arena.
- This is a normal, if maximum 2♣ rebid, so its not like I'm worried about distorting my hand with a subsequent rebid.

and most importantly,

- The field as a whole, isn't doing this.

At IMPs I would and wouldn't think twice, unless you can convince me that partner with their 4432 9 count is taking a call after a 2♣ rebid.

At MPs NV I think I would, however. Many more good things seem to happen, like shutting them out of their partscore or game and I'm -100.

[G_R__E_G]

I voted no but it's close. I think at IMP's I'd be more likely to but it's still not a given.

[mtvesuvius]

Definitely 1N. Jx and Qx are nice holdings in the doubletons, and I HATE rebidding 3♣ on these hands. I might sooner rebid 1♠

[JLOGIC]

Of course

[JLOGIC]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-July-14, 09:41, said:

Definitely 1N. Jx and Qx are nice holdings in the doubletons, and I HATE rebidding 3♣ on these hands. I might sooner rebid 1♠

Obv if you open 1C you rebid 2C

[xxhong]

If you have a way to show a 6 card minor suit after 1NT opening, it is certainly fine to open 1NT IMO. Otherwise, you should ask yourself do you feel bad if parnter holds something like Axx AKxx xx Kxxx, after a simple stayman, he bids 3NT, you go down after a normal D lead, if you open 1C and rebid 2C, you stop at 5 C later after a few cuebids because you miss DAK. If you don't mind, certainly, you can open 1NT IMO.

the_dude, on 2011-July-14, 07:53, said:

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1st seat, Matchpoints, both sides VUL.

PS: Does your answer change at IMPs?

[hrothgar]

the_dude, on 2011-July-14, 07:53, said:

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1st seat, Matchpoints, both sides VUL.

PS: Does your answer change at IMPs?

This hand is really pissing me off.

My gut reaction is to open this 1♣ (and then rebid 2♣)
However, if I switched a single card from clubs into either red suit, I'd open 1NT in a heart beat.

This doesn't feel at all consitent, hence my annoyence

[zasanya]

JLOGIC, on 2011-July-14, 10:10, said:

Of course

Does that mean all 15-17 (or whatever is the specified range for 1NT ) semi balanced hands (5-4-2-2 or 6-3-2-2) should be opened 1NT?Do we have to specifically alert ops to our somewhat unusual possible shapes? Do you open 1 NT with a singleton if the singleton happens to be a high honor?

[JLOGIC]

hrothgar, on 2011-July-14, 10:36, said:

This hand is really pissing me off.

My gut reaction is to open this 1♣ (and then rebid 2♣)
However, if I switched a single card from clubs into either red suit, I'd open 1NT in a heart beat.

This doesn't feel at all consitent, hence my annoyence

That doesn't really seem inconsistent, 6322 and 5332 are very different.

Quote

If you have a way to show a 6 card minor suit after 1NT opening, it is certainly fine to open 1NT IMO. Otherwise, you should ask yourself do you feel bad if parnter holds something like Axx AKxx xx Kxxx, after a simple stayman, he bids 3NT, you go down after a normal D lead, if you open 1C and rebid 2C, you stop at 5 C later after a few cuebids because you miss DAK. If you don't mind, certainly, you can open 1NT IMO.

Do you also not open 1N with KQx Qxx Jx AQJxx because partner might have the same hand and the same thing might happen? Not opening 1N because of one possible bad scenario seems silly. Of course there are arguments for and against 1N, and the main one against it is it will be hard to find clubs when you belong there, but evaluating only one scenario does not seem good.

Luckily in real life the opps have read david birds recent article about always leading majors and have led a spade from 3 small isntead of from AQxx of diamonds so you make a lot of NT for a good MP score!

Quote

Does that mean all 15-17 (or whatever is the specified range for 1NT ) semi balanced hands (5-4-2-2 or 6-3-2-2) should be opened 1NT?

No, my general guideline for whether to open 1m or 1N is if I am happy to open 1m and rebid 3m (on both suit quality and strength), I will open 1m. I might also use positional considerations (eg Jx Qx is good for 1N).

With 5422 it would depend on which suits I had, if I had hearts and a strong enough hand to reverse I would do that, if I had spades I would often open 1m. With 5M 4m I would rarely open 1N.

Quote

Do we have to specifically alert ops to our somewhat unusual possible shapes?

No, semi balanced hands are not unusual for 1N.

Quote

Do you open 1 NT with a singleton if the singleton happens to be a high honor?

With the death shape, 1435 I would often open 1N with a stiff honor (especially king) and 16-17. Other than that I would rarely do it, maybe 3145 with 16-17 and stiff K.

[xxhong]

I do open 1NT with KQx Qxx Jx AQJxx and I have ways for the opener to show 5 clubs later. Still, showing 6 clubs after 1NT opening isn't easy for most systems.

JLOGIC, on 2011-July-14, 11:13, said:

That doesn't really seem inconsistent, 6322 and 5332 are very different.



Do you also not open 1N with KQx Qxx Jx AQJxx because partner might have the same hand and the same thing might happen? Not opening 1N because of one possible bad scenario seems silly. Of course there are arguments for and against 1N, and the main one against it is it will be hard to find clubs when you belong there, but evaluating only one scenario does not seem good.

Luckily in real life the opps have read david birds recent article about always leading majors and have led a spade from 3 small isntead of from AQxx of diamonds so you make a lot of NT for a good MP score!



No, my general guideline for whether to open 1m or 1N is if I am happy to open 1m and rebid 3m (on both suit quality and strength), I will open 1m. I might also use positional considerations (eg Jx Qx is good for 1N).

With 5422 it would depend on which suits I had, if I had hearts and a strong enough hand to reverse I would do that, if I had spades I would often open 1m. With 5M 4m I would rarely open 1N.



No, semi balanced hands are not unusual for 1N.



With the death shape, 1435 I would often open 1N with a stiff honor (especially king) and 16-17. Other than that I would rarely do it, maybe 3145 with 16-17 and stiff K.

[mike777]

the_dude, on 2011-July-14, 07:53, said:

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1st seat, Matchpoints, both sides VUL.

PS: Does your answer change at IMPs?

easy 1nt opener. rather deal with all the issues of offshape 1nt then rebid issues over 1c or other offshape 1 level suit openers in this range.

Since 1 level opening bids can be extremely wide ranging for me I need a away to limit many offshape hands in this range. Therefore I throw many 14+ hands into a nt type opening bid.

btw I dont have any special or unique way to show a 5 or 6 card minor, just not an issue.

[FrancesHinden]

I automatically open this type of hand 1NT.
What I find interesting is that I seem to be out of step with many North American players (not that I really care) in that I open many hands 1NT with a 6-card minor, but only rarely hands with a 5-card major.
I find this distinction works for me.

[jmcw]

FrancesHinden, on 2011-July-14, 14:38, said:

I automatically open this type of hand 1NT.
What I find interesting is that I seem to be out of step with many North American players (not that I really care) in that I open many hands 1NT with a 6-card minor, but only rarely hands with a 5-card major.
I find this distinction works for me.

By automatically do you mean 6322 15/17?, does it matter if the doubletons are weak? where do you draw the line?

One thing for sure if you choose to open 1♣ then a convenient rebid of 2 or 3♣ will lkely be a fairly decent description.

Not so easy when holding a 5-card Major. With 3532 16 points what do you rebid after 1♥>>1♠ or 1♥>>1NT?

[mike777]

I still do, I draw the line with 5 card major and xx in side suit but with minors, no.

btw I also have a jump rebid in a minor promise a stiff or void in side suit.


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with 3=5=3=2 and xx in clubs and 16 I may open 1h and over 1s I dont have a good rebid.

my options are 2s or 2c or 2d.

[the hog]

I would open this 1NT as it solves any rebid problems. I really dislike a 3C rebid with these softer cards in the red suits.

[Siegmund]

I am one of the strange ones who thinks that 1m-then-3m is a fine description here, with a good 6-card club suit and a 6-loser hand, and a couple of stoppers missing.

That said, I am in agreement with the general principle of "if the hand will give you a rebid problem over 1m, open it 1NT even with a 6-card minor" and I do it quite often.

[peachy]

The doubletons are soft but the alternative of 1C and then 2C is not appealing. Nor is rebidding 1NT. I certainly would not rebid 3C, a place where soft doubletons are much worse than they usually are in NT.

[Lurpoa]

JLOGIC, on 2011-July-14, 10:10, said:

Obv if you open 1C you rebid 2C

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WHY ?