[TMorris]

You have

♠AKx
♥A108xx
♦AKQx
♣10

The auction goes

(1♣) x (1♦) P
(2♣) x (3♣) P
(P) ?

[the_dude]

Vulnerability and form of scoring would be really useful here.

Since getting to a make-able game is pretty unlikely at this point (you would have to double again and partner somehow come up with 3♥) .. so it's probably right to take your likely plus score against 3♣.

Unless opponents are NV at Matchpoints .. in which case you might judge +50 or so to be worth few MP .. you could X again and hope you can make something. But bidding again could easily turn a plus score to a minus.

It may have been right to bid 2♥ at your second turn .. now partner would certainly raise with 4 and you wouldn't have to worry about missing game.

[semeai]

I like 2♥ over 2♣, especially given that your 4 card suit has now been bid.

Now I double again under most conditions.

[TMorris]

the_dude, on 2011-July-21, 07:17, said:

Vulnerability and form of scoring would be really useful here.

Ah sorry - Matchpoints, non-vul v vul.

[whereagles]

3♥ now seems just about par. 2♥ earlier would probably have been better.

[JLOGIC]

Yeah obv bid 2H the 2nd time imo...we have 5 hearts and 3 spades!

[jillybean]

Why don't you get in (1♥) on the first round of bidding?

[gordontd]

I'd probably have overcalled 1♥ and then followed with two doubles. I don't mind a first-round double, but would have next bid 2♥ and could now double again.

Two doubles on the first two rounds have left me badly placed now. I guess I'll double again.

[wank]

this modern penchant for overcalling on strong hands has gone way too far here in this thread methinks - you can easily have game or slam on in a 3rd suit and with so many points 1♥ will often end the auction.

it's putting far too much pressure on partner to dredge up a response with no fit, which considering people are also overcalling on 7 counts is a dangerous business.

[TMorris]

Thanks for all the comments. I accept I should have bid 2 hearts on the 2nd round.

I was nowhere near bidding 1 heart on the first round - it's way too strong for me (which is why I doubled 2nd time around as I felt I was (just) too strong even then). As has been suggested, a range of 8-20 points for a simple overcall is much too wide for me.

For those who are interested in what was possible on the board. They can make 3 clubs with their 10 card fit. We can make 3 hearts or 3 spades with our 8 or 7 card fits respectively. Partner had a 3 count (QJx of hearts).

[gordontd]

wank, on 2011-July-24, 09:20, said:

this modern penchant for overcalling on strong hands has gone way too far here in this thread methinks - you can easily have game or slam on in a 3rd suit and with so many points 1♥ will often end the auction.

it's putting far too much pressure on partner to dredge up a response with no fit, which considering people are also overcalling on 7 counts is a dangerous business.

It's not so dangerous if the people overcalling on 20 counts are not the same people as those overcalling on 7 counts.

Of course you could get passed out in 1♥, but there's no guarantee that you'll have missed game if you do.

In practice I've rarely been passed out when I've made a strong overcall like this, and I'm fairly sure I've never missed game when I have. No doubt it could happen.

[Phil]

wank, on 2011-July-24, 09:20, said:

this modern penchant for overcalling on strong hands has gone way too far here in this thread methinks - you can easily have game or slam on in a 3rd suit and with so many points 1♥ will often end the auction.

it's putting far too much pressure on partner to dredge up a response with no fit, which considering people are also overcalling on 7 counts is a dangerous business.

Could not have said it better than this.

[jillybean]

wank, on 2011-July-24, 09:20, said:

this modern penchant for overcalling on strong hands has gone way too far here in this thread methinks - you can easily have game or slam on in a 3rd suit and with so many points 1♥ will often end the auction.

it's putting far too much pressure on partner to dredge up a response with no fit, which considering people are also overcalling on 7 counts is a dangerous business.

Doesn't the tendancy for players to open, respond and raise on minimums somewhat guard against it going (1♣) 1♥ - swish?

TMorris, could you post the full hand please?

[awm]

jillybean, on 2011-July-24, 20:31, said:

Doesn't the tendancy for players to open, respond and raise on minimums somewhat guard against it going (1♣) 1♥ - swish?

TMorris, could you post the full hand please?

Sometimes, but people don't respond on bad hands as much in competition. Two of the big reasons to respond on bad hands are to keep opponents out of the auction (too late) and in case partner has a strong shapely hand (but here he can balance).

This hand also has the advantage of being pretty close to normal takeout double shape. I think the first round double is pretty clearcut, but prefer 2♥ at second turn.

[TMorris]

jillybean, on 2011-July-24, 20:31, said:

Doesn't the tendancy for players to open, respond and raise on minimums somewhat guard against it going (1♣) 1♥ - swish?

TMorris, could you post the full hand please?

Happy to. The opening was quite normal with

♠ QJ86
♥ K2
♦ 4
♣ AJ9762

responder had

♠ 73
♥ 863
♦ J875
♣ KQ83

My partner had

♠ 10942
♥ QJ4
♦ 10962
♣ 54