[KamalK]

Hello

Tourney. Both non-vul. Playing SAYC. Scoring MPs

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I was East.

1. Was invite OK or shd bid game?
2. After invite, could pd bid 4 with 9HCP?
3. Most bid game and we also made 4

May sound very elementary but I just cant figure out when to invite / bid game

All suggestions welcome.

Thank you.

[aguahombre]

The real question is whether 3S even invited game. It is not an easy situation even if you have MOD doubles in your arsenal, since it is not clear they should apply when the same person has been the same suit in front of you.

[KamalK]

aguahombre, on 2011-July-03, 22:47, said:

The real question is whether 3S even invited game. It is not an easy situation even if you have MOD doubles in your arsenal, since it is not clear they should apply when the same person has been the same suit in front of you.

I dont understand this. Can you pls elaborate?

Thanks

[aguahombre]

Many people play 3S here as just showing an extra spade competing, but not inviting game. Certainly, if 3S was inviting game, West is maximim and should bid game.

MOD is Maximal Overcall Double, used to invite game when all your side's room has been taken up by the interference. It usually applies when the other side has a fit with each other and penalty double is not practical.

[KamalK]

aguahombre, on 2011-July-03, 22:57, said:

Many people play 3S here as just showing an extra spade competing, but not inviting game. Certainly, if 3S was inviting game, West is maximim and should bid game.

MOD is Maximal Overcall Double, used to invite game when all your side's room has been taken up by the interference. It usually applies when the other side has a fit with each other and penalty double is not practical.

We play any X over 2♠ level is for penalty. So I guess under our present agreement I have to bid game from my end?

Guess we have to look up MOD.

Thanks

[aguahombre]

No, if as you stated in your OP 3S does truly invite game, then partner should have gone to game.

[KamalK]

aguahombre, on 2011-July-03, 23:25, said:

No, if as you stated in your OP 3S does truly invite game, then partner should have gone to game.

Yes right, we discussed and came to same conclusion.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

#2 if E invites, W accepts, he has promised 6HCP, he has 9HCP.
The invite just asks, p are you max. for your bidding, W has a
max.

#1 Inviting is ok, given the fact, that you know, that they will
have the hearts value, so that p wont have a lot of wasted hearts
values, bidding 4S is also reasonable.
On a side note: It is not 100% clear, that 3S is a invite, p could
simply have interpreted 3S as competitive.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[KamalK]

P_Marlowe, on 2011-July-03, 23:39, said:

On a side note: It is not 100% clear, that 3S is a invite, p could
simply have interpreted 3S as competitive.

Thanks Marlowe.

Yes agree. But I dont have any other bid....or do I?

Regards

[chasetb]

Nope. Unless you are using MOD and have that agreement that they apply here, you either blast game or pass. I would admittedly pass, not expecting there to be a game.

[P_Marlowe]

KamalK, on 2011-July-03, 23:45, said:

Thanks Marlowe.

Yes agree. But I dont have any other bid....or do I?

Regards

See the comment regarding Maximum Doubles.

You need to decide, what is more important / what comes up more often,
hands, that want to go for blood, or hands, that need the option to
differentiate between purely comp. and that want to invite.

Most would say, the hands, that need the option to distiguish purely
comp. / inv. are more common, but whatever - it is more important to know,
what you are playing, if X is penalty for you, than this is fine.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[KamalK]

P_Marlowe, on 2011-July-04, 00:47, said:

You need to decide, what is more important / what comes up more often.......
Most would say, the hands, that need the option to distinguish purely
comp. / inv. are more common, but whatever - it is more important to know,
what you are playing, if X is penalty for you, than this is fine.

Thanks Marlowe

[bonxie]

I would not worry too much about missing game under the stated conditions. (MP Non-vulnerable) On another day partner will have the same hand with the minors reversed , when 9 tricks is the very likely limit. Game is only sound because of the diamond double fit. Credit north for taking away your game tries, if he passes 2♠ its easy.
(1♥) - 1♠ - PASS - 2♠
PASS - 3♦

and now partner knows of the double fit and has an easy raise to game.

[ggwhiz]

bonxie, on 2011-July-04, 03:12, said:

I would not worry too much about missing game under the stated conditions. (MP Non-vulnerable) On another day partner will have the same hand with the minors reversed , when 9 tricks is the very likely limit. Game is only sound because of the diamond double fit. Credit north for taking away your game tries, if he passes 2♠ its easy.
(1♥) - 1♠ - PASS - 2♠
PASS - 3♦

and now partner knows of the double fit and has an easy raise to game.

100%. It's too important at MP scoring and non-vul to bid 3♠ on many hands that can't even make 9 tricks to give the opps a dilemma. Miss the occasional game but don't leave your partner in fear of competing.

[Stephen Tu]

I think west should have bid 2♥ not 2♠. 5 cd side suit headed by KQ, no wasted heart honor, ST, this is clearly worth upgrading a point to a cue-raise. When one can invite at 2 level and still stop at 2 level, you shouldn't be reluctant to do so. Save conservatism for when an invite would require you to take 9 tricks when partner declines.

The actual auction 3♠ is just competitive, can't realistically get there after opener sticks 3♥ in.