[the_dude]

IMPs

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If you double, what are your plans when partner bids 3♥? How about if he bids 3♣?

If you balance with 3♣, how aggressively do you expect partner to bid game? Are you showing significant extra values?

etc...

[aguahombre]

2NT was easier for me, because it is "delay unusual" in this case, not overstating the values, but rather just about right on strength with two more clubs than diamonds.

3C would have been about the same playing strength, but certainly better clubs or longer.

[JLOGIC]

Good problem imo

[JLOGIC]

aguahombre, on 2011-July-03, 22:37, said:

2NT was easier for me, because it is "delay unusual" in this case, not overstating the values, but rather just about right on strength with two more clubs than diamonds.

What do you bid with a balanced 18-19?

[aguahombre]

With the 18-19 would double.

[P_Marlowe]

3C.

We play 2NT as Good-Bad in this seq., so we are able differentiate between really good hands
and hands, that just want to compete, for us the weaker hand bid direct.

If I reopen with X and hear 3H, I have to pass, since I dont like this, I dont reopen with X.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[whereagles]

I'm going with 3♣, which seems to me the percentage bid.

[han]

I would double, second choice 3D.

[gnasher]

I'd rather be able to show 4-6 in the minors than 18-19 balanced.

Some of the balanced hands look like takeout doubles anyway. With the remainder, bidding 2NT will gain if partner has enough for us to make game, but it will lose if he is weaker and we should be defending instead of struggling in 2NT.

Being able to show a 4-6, on the other hand, has more ways to gain: it will still help us to get to good games when responder has values, but even when he has very little we may still get to a making partscore.

[mtvesuvius]

I like 3♣ barring any special agreements.

[whereagles]

gnasher, on 2011-July-05, 14:05, said:

I'd rather be able to show 4-6 in the minors than 18-19 balanced. Some of the balanced hands look like takeout doubles anyway.

Well, trouble is you're a bit out of bids to show a balanced hand. Dbl tends to show an unbalanced hand already and if you follow up with 2NT, it might sound as if you're stuck for a rebid rather than having 18-19. If you dbl and pull a heart bid to clubs you're naturally showing long clubs, extras and no support for hearts. Kind of like what you have.

But anyway, the main problem is not even these technicalities but rather that this sort of stuff needs discussion. It's not to be done ad hoc.

[aguahombre]

whereagles, on 2011-July-06, 06:52, said:

... this sort of stuff needs discussion. It's not to be done ad hoc.

LOL. I think I have seen that on other threads by a former poster. Is there some reason to believe that Gnasher or I have failed to discuss unnatural uses of 2NT with our partners?

[gnasher]

whereagles, on 2011-July-06, 06:52, said:

Well, trouble is you're a bit out of bids to show a balanced hand.

Yes, so what? I'm willing to pass a balanced 18-19 count that doesn't look like a takeout double, accepting an occasional loss. As I said, I expect the losses to be counterbalanced by the gains when:
- I have 18-19 balanced but partner has a bad balanced hand
- I show 4-6 and we reach a game that we would otherwise have missed
- I show 4-6 and we reach the right partscore

Quote

Dbl tends to show an unbalanced hand already and if you follow up with 2NT, it might sound as if you're stuck for a rebid rather than having 18-19.

The bidding is already at bid 2♠, so there are few sequences where I can double and follow it with 2NT.

Quote

If you dbl and pull a heart bid to clubs you're naturally showing long clubs, extras and no support for hearts. Kind of like what you have.

And you're also at the four-level, or (on a bad day) at the five-level. if I were willing to do that, I could just bid 3♦ immediately.

[whereagles]

@gnasher: well, don't get me wrong. I don't like dbl as well and I probably wouldn't do it even with a stronger hand. Prefer it to show a more classic take out shape.

I just wanted to mention that I prefer 2NT as natural and that dbl could, perhaps, be used to show a 6-4 shape (even though I wouldn't do it). Won't dispute your claim that 2NT is best used as minors 6-4.