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Yet another What Is This Double

Poll: Yet another What Is This Double (26 member(s) have cast votes)

Partner's double says

  1. Pure penalty (15 votes [57.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.69%

  2. Penalty, but pull with a void / no defense (4 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  3. Two-way expecting you to guess from your own hand (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. Just cards/negative-ish/something (2 votes [7.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  5. Pure takeout (4 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  6. Other (1 votes [3.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.85%

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#1 User is offline   Siegmund 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 17:27

An auction:

1NT - (2H) - 2NT - (P)
3C - (3H) - P - (P)
X

1NT=15-17
2H = Cappelletti
2NT= Lebensohl (so 3C forced.)

Clearly "bid your suit now, p"? Clearly penalty? Just look at your own cards and try to guess what partner is trying to do?
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#2 User is offline   mohitz 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 20:00

I voted double to be pure takeout but responder can pass obviously. If my partner bid this, I would expect him to have support for both the minors, say 3244 or 22(45) or maybe 3145 if its our style to bid 1N with those.
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#3 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 20:21

Double is 100% penalty. It doesn't consult responder, nor is it some sort of 'takeout'. Responder could have competed himself, or opener could have bid 4♣ (p/c)
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#4 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-June-27, 02:03

Pard seems to have a competitive hand with a minor, so take-out doesn't make much sense. But pure penalty doesn't make sense either because unless LHO is nuts, opener is gonna have like ♥KQJx once on a blue moon. So "optional/competitive" seems to be the most sensible meaning. I'd say something like

KJx
Kxx
Kxx
AQxx

give or take a card.
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#5 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2011-June-27, 04:57

Right, responder had a natural 2♠ available so his 2NT showed clubs or diamonds. As Phil said, if opener wanted to compete to 4m he could just bid 4♣.

However, I might be understanding if partner pulls to 4m with a void. Depends whether we get a good result. ;)

Congratulations to whereagles on finding a hand where pass is really obvious.
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#6 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-June-27, 08:27

Pure penalty imo for several reasons. Responder has already shown his type of hand (only the minor suit is unknown), Opener could've bid something to scramble into a decent spot (3♠ or 4♣), and Double of a weird bid is penalty (why didn't LHO bid 3♥ immediately?).
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#7 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-June-27, 09:39

Isn't

2♦*-(3♣)-X
*-multi

generally played also as penalty?

and I know it's the same auction but I think it's at least a little similar :)
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#8 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2011-June-29, 08:10

Pure penalty.

And gwnn's auction too.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#9 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2011-June-29, 15:44

The Dbl is under their trump, thus usually takeout. But looking at the auction as a whole, I think it is penalty.
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#10 User is offline   Siegmund 

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Posted 2011-July-01, 10:39

It came up playing with a GIB in a Free Express game (not a robot game, where you can mouseover the bid before you make it and see what GIB is going to interpret it as.)

I made what I thought had to be a penalty double, and GIB announced it as takeout, and duly ran, turning +300 into -1100.

It did not help that GIB had lebensohled with 3-0-5-5. It DID have a heart void, but QJxxx opposite xx doesn't play well at the 4-level with 20HCP between you, six of mine wasted in hearts.
I posted the thread mostly to see if I should post it as a system bug in the GIB forum.
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#11 User is offline   Lurpoa 

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Posted 2011-July-01, 11:42

View PostSiegmund, on 2011-June-26, 17:27, said:

An auction:

1NT - (2H) - 2NT - (P)
3C - (3H) - P - (P)
X

1NT=15-17
2H = Cappelletti
2NT= Lebensohl (so 3C forced.)

Clearly "bid your suit now, p"? Clearly penalty? Just look at your own cards and try to guess what partner is trying to do?





♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
I know,

I keep repeating myself, but you need to agree on this sequence with your partner. There are always pro's and cons.

partner told he wanted to compete at the 3level. So he should have some values. Without agreement, this double seems to be for penalty. And for MPs I would prefer to play it like that.

But if this is for IMPS, and sitting in front of the 3♥, why would I risk this double....how frequent would that be ? So would prefer to have a further competitive double here......
♥Bob Herreman ♥
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