[Vampyr]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-June-24, 17:29, said:

Thx.... but,how to you handle the "both minors" cases when playing 4-suit transfers, ?

Weak has been discussed already. With strong hands you can transfer to clubs and then bid diamonds, and/or use 3-level bids in minors or majors. I use 3♦ as 5+♣, 5+♦ slam interest. Not that it ever comes up. I also play 3♥ and 3♠ to show fragments, with shortness in the other major and 4-5/5-4 in the minors.

[KamalK]

mgoetze, on 2011-June-24, 06:54, said:

I think most people play 3♥/3♠ after a minor suit transfer as showing shortness. You don't necessarily need to be slam interested yet, it can also help to decide whether 3NT or 5m is right (if opener has lots of honors opposite the shortness, 3NT is likely to be better, whereas a bare ace or nothing at all would tend to indicate 5m). If opener prefers the minor he should only bid 4m though to allow a slam-interested responder to cuebid. Similarily, if responder bids on after opener bids 3NT, it's a cuebidding sequence.

Need to look up how to get this right. Another poster also suggested 'minorwood'. Guess all this needs a lot of work. Thanks again.

[KamalK]

mgoetze, on 2011-June-24, 06:54, said:

I think most people play 3♥/3♠ after a minor suit transfer as showing shortness. You don't necessarily need to be slam interested yet, it can also help to decide whether 3NT or 5m is right (if opener has lots of honors opposite the shortness, 3NT is likely to be better, whereas a bare ace or nothing at all would tend to indicate 5m). If opener prefers the minor he should only bid 4m though to allow a slam-interested responder to cuebid. Similarily, if responder bids on after opener bids 3NT, it's a cuebidding sequence.

Need to look up how to get this right. Another poster also suggested 'minorwood'. Guess all this needs a lot of work. Thanks again.

[mgoetze]

KamalK, on 2011-June-24, 19:36, said:

Need to look up how to get this right. Another poster also suggested 'minorwood'. Guess all this needs a lot of work. Thanks again.

There's nothing special to the cuebidding on this sequence, it's the same as if you had bid 1m-3M(splinter) or 1m-2m(inverted)-3M or 1♣(strong)-2m-3m or whatever.

"Minorwood" means playing 4 of the minor as RKCB when a minor is agreed. If you play Minorwood, then it should be on after a transfer to a minor, e.g. 1NT-2♠-3♣-4♣ would be minorwood.

"Kickback" (or possibly "redwood") means playing 4♦ as RKCB when clubs are agreed and 4♥ as RKCB when diamonds are agreed. If you play Kickback, then it should be on after a transfer to a minor.

However, I would not advise agreeing either of these only for this particular sequence. Just play whatever cuebidding style you always play.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I think I should refrain from posting in the B/I.
It is costing me too much in "Reputation" ( as if I give a rat's ass about that ).

I thought this topic was a very good one, because " covering all the bases " for Responder's minor suit holdings is a difficult one.... and one that I have agonized over for a long time.

My Minor suit structure over 1NT with most of my pard's.... sucks.

Most Structures will address certain aspects such as "long minor suits" but omit the "both suits" cases... or some such.

I've noticed many take the easy way out with minor holdings by just searching for 3NT -- as the OP said -- and miss slams.

I finally took the time to list a structure that would cover "all the bases" without going into too much detail ( such as follow-ups ) but I see that I have failed in the eyes of the "up/down" police.... who IMO have a very condescending attitude toward the actual B & I's .

[Bbradley62]

mgoetze, on 2011-June-24, 06:54, said:

KamalK, on 2011-June-24, 01:32, said:

Bbradley62, on 2011-June-23, 23:39, said:

I still like something I've played for a couple of decades:
1NT-2♠ is a relay to 3♣, showing one minor or the other
... if responder has a weak hand with clubs, he passes
... if responder has a weak hand with diamonds, he corrects to 3♦
... if responder has a slam invite hand with clubs, he bids 3♥
... if responder has a slam invite hand with diamonds, he bids 3♠.

1N-2N/3♣/3♦ are all natural and game invitational.

Thanks, I suppose this is easier for us at Intermediate/Advancing Inter level.

Now I have 2 further queries. We often mess up even after having established trumps in minor suits. We either play in 3 level and miss 5 or play in 5 missing slam. Or often blindly bid 5/6. So then :

1. 3♥/ 3♠ is not cue bids, right? Just a slam showing interest? How do you take it forward after 3♥/3♠?

2. Playing reg BW what next? and playing RKC1430 whats next?

I think most people play 3♥/3♠ after a minor suit transfer as showing shortness...

Yes, most people play as mgoetze describes, but that would be when the transfer was for a known suit. In the convention I described (I've never known a name for it), the 3M rebids by responder are artificial and simply tell opener the general strength (slam invite) of responder and which minor he holds. Opener can decline the invitation by signing off in game, or investigate the possibility of slam by cue bidding, or simply accept the invitation and bid minorwood to check for keycards on the way to slam.

[nige1]

If you want to keep
1N - 2♣
2♥ - 2N = Limit raise with 4♠

Then you can play,,,

1N - 2♠ = Range ask or weak with a minor* or strong with both minors* or big flat hand*
?? Then...
- 2N = Lower range
- 3♣ = Upper range
- 3♦ = Upper range with super ♣ *

1N - 2♠ -
2N - ??
- 3♣ = Natural weak
- 3♦ = Natural weak
- 3♥ = Splinter: short ♥ with both minors *
- 3♠ = Splinter: short ♠ with both minors *
- 3N = Natural to play
- 4♣... = Baron asking for suits to be bid upwards looking for fit for slam purposes *

1N - 2♠ -
2N - 3♣
- As above except
- _P = Natural weak

* = optional additions.

But jjbrr's 4-suit transfer scheme seems better.