[Hanoi5]

All white, teams, you hold:

♠AJ987xx
♥---
♦A873
♣AQ

Pa-Pa-1♠-X
XX-3♥-???

XX shows 10+ no fit
3♥ is pre-emptive

[ArtK78]

I am going to bid 4♠.

I am not going to look for a slam opposite a passed hand (admittedly one with 10+ HCP) and no fit. But I am definitely going to play this hand in game in the obvious spot.

[daveharty]

My first thought was the same as ArtK78's, that 4S was the obvious spot. I'm pretty sure that's what I would bid at the table. But on reflection partner doesn't need much for 6D; even a hand like x/Qxxx/KJxx/Kxxx is pretty good, and that's a subminimum redouble in my book. Plus I can still bid 4S if the opps push on. So I'll bite and bid 4D, fully prepared to apologize.

[pooltuna]

ArtK78, on 2011-June-23, 08:22, said:

I am going to bid 4♠.

I am not going to look for a slam opposite a passed hand (admittedly one with 10+ HCP) and no fit. But I am definitely going to play this hand in game in the obvious spot.

I think this is the %age choice

[whereagles]

hmmm... give pard a 1444 and I'm not so sure I want to play 4♠.

Doubling 3♥ may be our sides' best contract, but in the pass-out seat pard can dbl with a lot of unsuitable hands, so I'll just bid 3♠ here. Pard will raise this if he has 2 spades and only 1 heart stop. If he however now bids 3NT, I'd pass.

[MrAce]

whereagles, on 2011-June-24, 00:26, said:

hmmm... give pard a 1444 and I'm not so sure I want to play 4♠.

Doubling 3♥ may be our sides' best contract, but in the pass-out seat pard can dbl with a lot of unsuitable hands, so I'll just bid 3♠ here. Pard will raise this if he has 2 spades and only 1 heart stop. If he however now bids 3NT, I'd pass.

The reason we did not open 4♠ is because we have extra AAQ on side and now pd showed apprx about 10 hcp and we will worry about if we make game or not in teammatch ? Wow.

[jcrosa]

Partner did not deny 2 spades.
It's easy to construct hands with 10 HCP (and less than that) where slam is good, either in ♠ or in ♦, and even if the ♣Q is a wasted card. So don't count me in for giving up on slam right away.
IF we are in a forcing situation (as normally set up by the redouble, but some people might consider that the jump bid by advancer and/or the opening bid in 3rd position change that), opener should perhaps consider passing and then bidding ♠ or ♦, showing ("pass and pull") a better hand than by taking immediate action.

[gszes]

any other position I would pass over 3h and pull to
show this extra value monster. 3rd seat I will do the
best I can do and since

KQJxxxx
xx
Kx
Kx

is a decent 4s bid I will not do that with my so much
better hand. I will try my best and bid

4h

this should be an obvious slam try with long spades
and short hearts. We should allow p to bid 4n to PLAY
in case they are VERY short in spades. We should also
honor a 4s bid from p. The real downside of 4h is how
does p proceed to show slam intertest? My suggestion is
they cue bid lowest control at 5 level. Once that
happens opener can bid 6d and offer a choice of contracts.

It is indeed possible to miss an easy 7d contract this way
but just making 6 will probably be good enough

[benlessard]

Its unfortunate but pass cannot be forcing here, its a passed hand vs a 3rd seat opening.

I would like play 4D as forcing but again im not 100% sure about it.

X is not negative so ill just bid 4H as a COG this needed to be discussed but when a neg x isnt available you need a COG/catch all bid. With 5044 shapes i would bid 4Nt so 4H suggest 6S/4m. If partner take it a slam try it doesnt bother me too much.

Bidding a simple 4S also make sense.

Very nasty hand.

The more i think abouit it the better i like 4S, partner can easily be 1435

[whereagles]

MrAce, on 2011-June-24, 00:34, said:

The reason we did not open 4♠ is because we have extra AAQ on side (...)

"we"? Well, speak for yourself.

[MrAce]

whereagles, on 2011-June-24, 10:35, said:

"we"? Well, speak for yourself.

You maybe right on this one since A/E section always confuses me. We have people who thinks 6 is a possibility but settles in 4♠, we have another one who is worried to miss grandslam but settles in slam, and we have you who is not even sure if wanna play game or not.

My confusion is, i am looking at the hand, and still seeing a 7042, void in opponent suit, rich in trump spots, 15 hcp which includes 3 Aces by the way ! At the top of the fact that pd RDBLED! And i am asking myself "What kind of food posioning makes a man wanna play this hand in part score ?"

I know you will reply "Don't be silly" I get it

[whereagles]

Hey, "Don't be silly" is an euphemism. What I really mean when I say that is "you #$$%&"#"

Anyway, I'm not gonna say that lol. I meant 3♠ as forcing, not competitive. If it crosses my mind that pard might pass that, of course you can be bloody sure I bid 4♠.

[MrAce]

whereagles, on 2011-June-25, 13:39, said:

Hey, "Don't be silly" is an euphemism. What I really mean when I say that is "you #$$%&"#"

Anyway, I'm not gonna say that lol. I meant 3♠ as forcing, not competitive. If it crosses my mind that pard might pass that, of course you can be bloody sure I bid 4♠.

I dont mind the 3♠ bid, what i refered was

whereagles, on 2011-June-24, 00:26, said:

hmmm... give pard a 1444 and I'm not so sure I want to play 4♠.

I took this as u dont wanna play game if he has 1444. Perhaps u meant u wanna play some other game than 4♠. If so i see your point now. 3 NT never occured to me as an option tbh. When pd has 1444 and 2♥ stopper they lead ♥, i play ♠, they lead another ♥ and if my ♠ are not established by now i am pretty much done in 3 NT while cold for 4♠.

[whereagles]

MrAce, on 2011-June-25, 14:16, said:

I took this as u dont wanna play game if he has 1444. Perhaps u meant u wanna play some other game than 4♠.

yeah, that's what I meant. Not playing game here seems.. well, huh.. silly

I was worried of 2 spade losers + 2 minor suit losers playing spades, but not that I see it again, that's overly pessimistic. 4♠ should definitely have a play for even if pard has a very unsuitable hand, say,

AJ98xxx
--
Axxx
AQ

x
KQxx
Qxxx
Kxxx

Anyway, I concede that 4♠ is probably a better bid than 3.

[nige1]

Hanoi5, on 2011-June-23, 07:51, said:

All white, teams, you hold: ♠ AJ987xx ♥- ♦ A873 ♣ AQ
Pa-Pa-1♠-X
XX-3♥-???
XX shows 10+ no fit
3♥ is pre-emptive

IMO, as suggested by jcrosa, Pass = 10. For us, partner's redouble sets up a forcing pass (even though he is a passed hand). Then, suppose partner doubles. You can pull to 4♦ = 10, 4♠ = 8, or 3♠ = 5 -- showing sound values and ♥ shortage. For us, an immediate 4♠ over the redouble would show a weaker hand e.g. ♠ KQJxxxxx ♥- ♦ KQJx ♣ xx

[Onedown]

Hanoi5, on 2011-June-23, 07:51, said:

All white, teams, you hold:

♠AJ987xx
♥---
♦A873
♣AQ

Pa-Pa-1♠-X
XX-3♥-???

XX shows 10+ no fit
3♥ is pre-emptive

Since we have partner with 10+ we must be in game, especially at IMPs. But the question is what is forcing here and what is the right spot? It is not 3NT and a 5 level minor may be too high!
If I bid 4 ♦I fear this is not forcing and we may get too high in 5 ♦on a 4-4 fit and miss 4♠if partner has xx in spades, the K being a bonus.
If we decide to force with 4♥ then we are going to hear 5♣or 5♦, not where I would ideally like to be.
Ergo my bid is 4♠ and may the bridge gods be with me!

[MrAce]

Onedown, on 2011-June-26, 22:52, said:

Ergo my bid is 4♠ and may the bridge gods be with me!

You will be fine without bridge gods bro, you are playing game in your 8 card major fit with apprx 25-26 hcp combined and you are far from holding a flat hand