[Cyberyeti]

Fluffy, on 2011-June-05, 13:54, said:

don't raise to 4 with 5332, it works poorly.

I would bid a solid 2♠ 8-10 if avaible, close to invitational 2NT. If your structure doesn't have a sound raise avaible then 2NT is probably best.

I agree in principle, but of the choices available it seemed best. You need a bid for "not quite a 2N" and the system played doesn't have one.

At this vul 4♠ can also gain when partner has a poor hand, as it will be difficult for opps to enter the auction, and you'll most likely just drift off undoubled if opps were making something.

[gwnn]

Don't bid 2♠ on 5!!!!

[billw55]

Cyberyeti, on 2011-June-05, 11:19, said:

You don't have a very good imagination then, partner's hand doesn't even need to be very good.

Kxxxxx, Axxxx, Ax, void or Kxxxxx, x, AQxxxx, void is plenty.

er ... lol? Partner's hand doesn't need to be very good, only 66 or 65 with a void?

Anyway, I agree with a 4 card limit raise, by whatever means available.

Lastly why is 1♠-4♠ undefined? Seems like a fairly routine and useful bid.

[mgoetze]

billw55, on 2011-June-06, 12:27, said:

Lastly why is 1♠-4♠ undefined? Seems like a fairly routine and useful bid.

We never got around to it, and as mentioned upthread, useful suggestions are welcome.

[cherdano]

billw55, on 2011-June-06, 12:27, said:

Lastly why is 1♠-4♠ undefined? Seems like a fairly routine and useful bid.

mgoetze, on 2011-June-06, 12:32, said:

We never got around to it, and as mentioned upthread, useful suggestions are welcome.

It's impractical (and, actually, quite bad) to forget everything you ever learned about bridge when forming a new partnership. Unless there is a reason not to, you should assume that bids with standard meanings also have the same meaning in your partnership.
The standard meaning of 4♠ is preemptive - typically 5 trumps, but 4-card support with a void certainly qualifies. Strength is typically defined as "one useful feature" - good trumps, ruffing value, a control.

Of course it's better to fine tune this agreement (i.e. the exact range), but it's much better to assume the standard meaning than to leave the bid undefined.

[mgoetze]

Well I didn't say I would never bid this. I just meant we never discussed it.

[JLOGIC]

gwnn, on 2011-June-06, 03:02, said:

Don't bid 2♠ on 5!!!!

There was a hand in the cavendish where joe and some others bid 2S on 6 over 1S (2C) ? It was seriously like Jxxxxx Jx Qxx Qx red/white or something. At my table I overcalled 4C and shane bid 4S and I reopened X haha.

Anyways, I think bidding 2S with 5 is forced a lot if you don't have a mixed raise available. It is simply a flaw of your system that you have no bid for a reasonable common hand type, a hand not worth a limit raise but too good for a preemptive raise that wants to still preempt. I mean, if my options with a 5332 7 count not vul are bidding 4S (!) or bidding 3S which I also might do with xxxx xx xxxx xxx or something, or bidding 2S, I'm bidding 2S.

I don't think this hand qualifies as that hand though because it is good enough for a limit raise. The 5th trump is worth a lot and we are prime.

[Lovera]

As i have already said in "1♥-p-4♥" (topic-see) i use "Oklahoma" convention to give partner information of number of Ace(s) in this way : it's estabilished that 4♣=1 Ace, 4♦=2 Aces whilest with no ace 4 of trump and opener values if information serves and if not corrects in 4 of trump. But because i see you like insert keycard and to have two Aces could be minus frequent it can change in 4♣=1 keycard, 4♦=2 keycards and 4 of trump with 0 keycard (becoming "keycard-Oklahoma").(Lovera)

[Vampyr]

Lovera, on 2015-May-05, 14:06, said:

As i have already said in "1♥-p-4♥" (topic-see) i use "Oklahoma" convention to give partner information of number of Ace(s) in this way : it's estabilished that 4♣=1 Ace, 4♦=2 Aces whilest with no ace 4 of trump and opener values if nformation serves and if not corrects in 4 of trump. But because i see you like insert keycard and to have two Aces could be minus frequent it can change in 4♣=1 keycard, 4♦=2 keycards and 4 of trump with 0 keycard (becoming "keycard-Oklahoma"), bye.

"Oklahoma" involves bidding 4♣ or 4♦ over 4♥? I like it!

[nige1]

mgoetze, on 2011-June-04, 14:02, said:

Partner's 1♠ showed 5 spades, 11-21 points.
Your options:
2♣ Invitational with 3 spades / GF with clubs / GF balanced
2♠ 6-9 with 3+ spades
2NT Invitational+ with 4+ spades
3♠ preemptive raise (0-5)
4♠ undefined

---

IMO 2N = 10, 4♠ = 9, 2♠ = 8.

[Lovera]

Vampyr, on 2015-May-05, 16:04, said:

"Oklahoma" involves bidding 4♣ or 4♦ over 4♥? I like it!

No, not only heart but also spade (on major suits). The solution of keycards it's a mine idea; this convention it is better of "Swiss" being of same type (strange that you don't know because is not recent).