[ebois]

I am new to duplicate, made a claim in tourney on line, opponent objected, we played out, then e mailed and said i could not claim because i had trump in my hand, i have read the rules and do not find that anyplace, am i missing some rule. i thought you could calim after the first trick.

[manudude03]

You can claim whenever you want, but you must explain how you will make what you are claiming, and that means really spelling it out for most opponents. Usually if there is a trump out, it is assumed you have forgotten it unless you specify you are drawing trumps. When it comes to online play, it's usually best to just play it out unless you physically can't lose another trick, and even then it's sometimes rejected

[mgoetze]

There is no rule about not being able to claim with trump in your hand or even in your opponent's hand. The actual rules for claims in face-to-face bridge are rather complicated, but that's mostly because people will sometimes make a wrong claim. In face-to-face play, you will need to state how many tricks you are claiming and which line of play guarantees you those tricks.

In online play, the de facto rule is that you claim some number of tricks, and if your opponents don't believe you, you play it out. It is, however, considered courteous to claim when possible and to accept claims which are correct. If someone else claims and you don't quite see how they are planning to make that number of tricks you may ask how they plan to do it, or you may simply reject the claim.

In face-to-face play, if you don't want to accept declarer's claim, you MUST call the director.

[VM1973]

 manudude03, on 2011-May-26, 10:30, said:

You can claim whenever you want, but you must explain how you will make what you are claiming, and that means really spelling it out for most opponents. Usually if there is a trump out, it is assumed you have forgotten it unless you specify you are drawing trumps. When it comes to online play, it's usually best to just play it out unless you physically can't lose another trick, and even then it's sometimes rejected

Online play is really weird. Once I bid 3NT and took the first 9 tricks and hit claim, giving the opponents the rest of the tricks. They rejected it.

[Hanoi5]

You can claim at any time as long as you state your line of play. When there is a trump (or more) outside you have to say how you will play it, i.e. if you're going to take it out, if opponents are gonna win it, etc. Failing to mention the outside trump (or a finesse or any other play) means you can be down (at least in a F2F tournament).

In the internet opponents can reject the claim and you can try to play it out, but in a live tournament all play ceases after the claim and then the Director is called to the table, and if you weren't clear on your statement you might lose that little trump you didn't mention...

[ebois]

 ebois, on 2011-May-26, 09:53, said:

I am new to duplicate, made a claim in tourney on line, opponent objected, we played out, then e mailed and said i could not claim because i had trump in my hand, i have read the rules and do not find that anyplace, am i missing some rule. i thought you could calim after the first trick.

Thanks to all, we did it the correct way on line, your comments are helpful.

[1eyedjack]

There is a theory, to which I do not subscribe but which I have to accept is a popular belief, that the mere rejection of a claim is sufficient to influence declarer's line that he was otherwise planning to make in favour of a more successful line (assuming unstated at the time of rejection). This is particularly the case in a face to face game, where the identity of the individual who rejects the claim is known to the claimant. This is less credible a suggestion online where the identity of the rejector is concealed. I have not yet seen a convincing (to me) argument for this theory when online, but there you have it.

Nevertheless, this is the rationale behind the law applied in face to face games that a line must be specified and in the absence of a stated line the claimant is assumed to make, from among a choice of plays which excludes only the truly irrational, that line which best benefits the opposing side. The laws cater in particular for the circumstance in which there is an outstanding trump to which no reference is made in the statement of claim (Law 70C) but in reality all this does is reinforce what is already catered for in law 70 where there is a contested claim and it seems superfluous.

In the online game, at least on BBO, the software allows you to play it out after a contested claim, with the non-claiming side thereafter playing double-dummy. This option is not supported by the laws (there is a sort of half-hearted attempt somewhere at producing a set of laws dedicated to the online game, but last time I looked they were a mess and if I recall still insisted on cessation of play).

For the vast majority of games on BBO, particularly but by no means exclusively non-tourney games, the players accept that a statement of claim is unnecessary, and that by continuing play as the software permits, the act of playing out the cards serves as that statement, including taking whatever finesses or drops you like, drawing trumps or otherwise. Players who object to this treatment tend to be rather new to the BBO environment and have in mind their experience of face to face games.

In a tourney, the host is free to make up whatever rules he likes, unless it is a regulated tourney such as run by ACBL. In that environment you may be required to cease play and follow the letter of the law, if the host so requires in the tourney conditions.

In your particular case I have no sympathy for the opposing side, which seemed to accept the principle of playing the hand out and then only after they failed to benefit from that non-statutory route sought to better their score in the "post mortem courtroom".

[nige1]

Agree with 1eyedjack

[aguahombre]

 VM1973, on 2011-May-26, 10:32, said:

Online play is really weird. Once I bid 3NT and took the first 9 tricks and hit claim, giving the opponents the rest of the tricks. They rejected it.

On OKB, if you claim conceding the rest of the tricks, a box comes up asking if you are sure;but the opponents never even see the claim and the hand goes away.

I would have thought BBO was the same, but I only use BBO for Vugraph and fora, so.....

[Bbradley62]

On BBO, there is a time limit on accepting claims. If you get the "claim rejected" message quickly, then your opponents really did reject it; if it takes a while, it probably means that the opponents simply did not act quickly enough to satisfy the system.

When not playing NT, it is a good habit to say "drawing trump" as you claim, if there are outstanding trumps and you intend to draw them.

[1eyedjack]

I think that I vaguely prefer the BBO method than the OKB method of conceding all tricks. If my opponent tries to concede all tricks and I can see that there is no line of play that avoids him taking another trick, I would like the opportunity to reject the concession.

[aguahombre]

 1eyedjack, on 2011-May-27, 05:26, said:

I think that I vaguely prefer the BBO method than the OKB method of conceding all tricks. If my opponent tries to concede all tricks and I can see that there is no line of play that avoids him taking another trick, I would like the opportunity to reject the concession.

Heh. Having claimed 7 and accidentally clicked on down 7, I think I agree.