[jillybean]

Here's a hand from the sectional Im playing in at the moment.
I'm playing in AX with a new partner so we don't have many detailed agreements.

---

afaik "expert standard" is to play X as penalty here, which implies I should be able to
bid 2♥ without partner hanging me? If 2♥ is not forcing any forcing hand must start with a
cue bid?


Another agreement we are wondering about is after 2♣ (2x) x=neg, pass=values do you lower the 8hcp requirement
for making a positive response if you have a suit, say a 6card suit headed by the Ace or King? xx,Axxxxx,Qxx,xx

[BunnyGo]

I may be wrong, but I believe that "standard" has the following meanings here:

Double is responsive (although, as you don't have agreements with this partner, it's hard to say for sure). It should say you have some points, and no clear direction, but can tolerate what partner likes.

2 Hearts should show a hand like this. Since you are no longer forced to bid, your free bid says you have more than a dead minimum and a suit. This is the bid I would make.

Why do you want to make a forcing bid with this hand?


Sorry, I don't understand your second paragraph's question about 2 Clubs.

[menggq]

2♥ is normal bidding.

[paulg]

jillybean, on 2011-May-22, 23:47, said:

afaik "expert standard" is to play X as penalty here, which implies I should be able to bid 2♥ without partner hanging me? If 2♥ is not forcing any forcing hand must start with a
cue bid?

I think 'expert standard' is to play double as penalty, but 'advanced standard' is probably moving towards responsive. Not a happy state of affairs for new partnerships

jillybean, on 2011-May-22, 23:47, said:

Another agreement we are wondering about is after 2♣ (2x) x=neg, pass=values, do you lower the 8hcp requirement for making a positive response if you have a suit, say a 6card suit headed by the Ace or King? xx,Axxxxx,Qxx,xx

In any competitive auction it is generally more effective to stretch a little to get your suit into the auction rather than wait until later, when it might be more dangerous to do so. After a strong 2♣ opening bid the opponents are focused on making your life difficult so I would bid any half-decent suit if I could do it cheaply, such as KQ10xx or Axxxxx.

[Hanoi5]

I think the TO double rules apply a little here. With a minimum hand you overcall at the lowest level (2♥ here). Of course when responder bids, minimum is no longer 0-8 but probably a good 6 to a bad 9. With an in-the-middle hand you'd jump (3♥ in this case) to show some 10-11. And of course with a much better hand you'd cue-bid opener's suit.

The thing with (1x)-Dbl-(1♠) is that sometimes responder is just psyching or trying to rob us from our spades or just bidding a lousy 4-card spade suit. So double shows spades and 2♠ very good spades and a better hand.

[jillybean]

Thanks, good information. To Ben; I don't want to make a forcing bid with this hand, these were questions that came up in the post game discussion. The actual hand turned out well, the opps bid to 4♠X, 800 tyvm.

Time to get back to the tournament, swiss teams today

[aguahombre]

I believe "responsive" refers to situations where the opps have bid and raised, or otherwise shown that they have a fit.

[ArtK78]

jillybean, on 2011-May-22, 23:47, said:

Here's a hand from the sectional Im playing in at the moment.
I'm playing in AX with a new partner so we don't have many detailed agreements.

---

afaik "expert standard" is to play X as penalty here, which implies I should be able to
bid 2♥ without partner hanging me? If 2♥ is not forcing any forcing hand must start with a
cue bid?


Another agreement we are wondering about is after 2♣ (2x) x=neg, pass=values do you lower the 8hcp requirement
for making a positive response if you have a suit, say a 6card suit headed by the Ace or King? xx,Axxxxx,Qxx,xx

On the first question, 2♥ is perfectly normal. You have 5 card "support" for partner's presumed 4 card heart suit, and a reasonable hand. You don't have enough to force to game, but you would accept an invitation if offered. So just bid 2♥ and see where that leads. If the opponents compete over 2♥, your hand is good enough to bid one more time. However, if they compete in spades, it may make sense to defend - especially if partner doubles.

On the second question, it is a fairly common treatment after a 2♣ opening and direct interference for responder's double to be a warning that responder is nearly bust. Therefore, a pass shows some values - enough to force to game opposite a minimum 2♣ opening. Any other action has the same meaning as if there were no interference.

I have never heard of an 8 HCP requirement for a positive response to a 2♣ opening. If you have a suit strength requirement - say, 2 of the top 3 honors - that shouldn't be any different over interference. While I realize that other players' standards for opening 2♣ may be lower than mine, I would say that any 5 HCP hand, or any hand with an ace, is enough to force to game opposite a 2♣ opening.

[helene_t]

aguahombre, on 2011-May-23, 09:52, said:

I believe "responsive" refers to situations where the opps have bid and raised, or otherwise shown that they have a fit.

well if you play this double as t/o then it is ok to call it responsive also, I think. That is just semantics of course.

[Phil]

I would not be upset at my partner with a 3♥ call with this hand.

[inquiry]

Even if you were (incorrectly in my view) playing double of 1♠ here as responsive, you would bid 2♥ (look you have five of them). And of course, if double of 1♠ is penalty you would bid 2♥.



BTW, I would be upset if my partner bid 3♥ with this hand.

[jillybean]

ArtK78, on 2011-May-23, 10:09, said:

I have never heard of an 8 HCP requirement for a positive response to a 2♣ opening. If you have a suit strength requirement - say, 2 of the top 3 honors - that shouldn't be any different over interference. While I realize that other players' standards for opening 2♣ may be lower than mine, I would say that any 5 HCP hand, or any hand with an ace, is enough to force to game opposite a 2♣ opening.

I think I am misusing the term 'positive response'. I am refering to any 2M/2C bid rather than 2D/2C and I might be wrong about the 8 HCP requirement. After interference I think you need to drop the '2 of top 3 honors' requirement and get your suit bid.

fwiw I'm with the 2♥ bidders on the posted hand.

[nigel_k]

It is easily enough for 2♥ and is much closer to 3♥ than pass. It would be close to a minimum 2♥ bid if one of the small hearts was a small spade.

[JLOGIC]

I would bid 3H. Agree that even if X is responsive, you would just bid hearts, you have 5 of them.