[Free]

helene_t, on Sep 15 2004, 09:30 AM, said:

Maybe the terms "novice" and "beginner" are unfortunate. How would you rate yourself if you had played for 30 years but still not reached the "intermediate" level?

Don't take this the wrong way, but perhaps "loser", or more general "best level was 80 years ago"

[EricK]

Gerben47, on Sep 15 2004, 09:17 AM, said:

That level is called "eternal beginner".
I'm puzzled how this is possible, but I know several...

There is for everyone a maximum level they could possibly reach.

It is disappointing to realise that however hard I try, I will never be world championship material. But there are players I know who try just as hard as I do, and don't reach even my level. And there are people who have played for decades, and not just "socially", who seem unable to grasp even the simplest of plays.

One can study any number of books or get tuition from the best tutors and still not get above one's personal ceiling. It is as true for bridge as it is for every human activity.

Eric

[paulhar]

Now that the hurricanes have passed by , I'll throw in my two cents.

If I'm playing with a weaker player by choice, I play normally (as normally as I can. ) If I do otherwise, and the result is bad, partner will learn how to cope with a wild bidding partner (which they might consider to be normal, not knowing any different.)

In an indy, I will attempt to play the hand, if ALL of the following are met:
- the decision is close
- I'm in contention (if I'm at 50%, why bother? might as well play normally for the benefit of the novice)
- partner won't misunderstand the auction

Otherwise, play normally. Partner playing 4H making 4 with 12 top tricks is better than me playing 3NT making 3 with four fast losers.

[skorchev]

Hi,

If I play at Indy with Beginner/Novice I try to get the NT or to bid non-standard to get the play and my partner to be dummy, but never bid ridiculous!

If I play pairs/teams tourney I play with my partner like at normal tourney, very very rarely I try to get the play.


Stefan

[Dwayne]

EricK, on Sep 15 2004, 01:06 PM, said:

It is disappointing to realise that however hard I try, I will never be world championship material.

Eric,
when I was young I took tennis lessons and had fantasy tennis matches against Rod Laver in my backyard - of course I almost always won and dreamed of the days when I would be winning Wimbledon.

Similarly, in my backyard cricket games I was always the star bowler and batsman.

Don't be too disappointed that you'll never be world championship material but I guess this only reinforces my opinion that bridge is an incredibly ego-driven past-time.

Dwayne Freud

[EricK]

Dwayne, on Sep 17 2004, 09:34 PM, said:

EricK, on Sep 15 2004, 01:06 PM, said:

It is disappointing to realise that however hard I try, I will never be world championship material.

Eric,
when I was young I took tennis lessons and had fantasy tennis matches against Rod Laver in my backyard - of course I almost always won and dreamed of the days when I would be winning Wimbledon.

Similarly, in my backyard cricket games I was always the star bowler and batsman.

Don't be too disappointed that you'll never be world championship material but I guess this only reinforces my opinion that bridge is an incredibly ego-driven past-time.

Dwayne Freud

All hobbies are ego-driven aren't they? "I do this because I enjoy it" is the rationale.

The disappointment comes largely from realising that I am missing out on the enjoyment of finding e.g. guard squeezes and other "expert" plays, and that I could not
play professionally, so I have to continue with my lousy day-job.

Eric

[junyi_zhu]

EricK, on Sep 15 2004, 06:06 PM, said:

Gerben47, on Sep 15 2004, 09:17 AM, said:

That level is called "eternal beginner".
I'm puzzled how this is possible, but I know several...

There is for everyone a maximum level they could possibly reach.

It is disappointing to realise that however hard I try, I will never be world championship material. But there are players I know who try just as hard as I do, and don't reach even my level. And there are people who have played for decades, and not just "socially", who seem unable to grasp even the simplest of plays.

One can study any number of books or get tuition from the best tutors and still not get above one's personal ceiling. It is as true for bridge as it is for every human activity.

Eric

To me, bridge has two parts, the technique part and the mental part. In some sense, one may not master the complicate technique in his life, but his bridge on the mental part can still improve. It's a game of decipline, a game of concentration, a game of understanding the balance, a game of understanding life, and a game of trying to follow the nature. In that sense, nobody is really limited. Yes, you might not be a world champion, be you still can be a great player. You might not be a great player, but you can be a great person. Not like the physical sports, bridge is a game that If one tries hard, one can always improve.

[EricK]

junyi_zhu, on Sep 18 2004, 10:35 PM, said:

EricK, on Sep 15 2004, 06:06 PM, said:

Gerben47, on Sep 15 2004, 09:17 AM, said:

That level is called "eternal beginner".
I'm puzzled how this is possible, but I know several...

There is for everyone a maximum level they could possibly reach.

It is disappointing to realise that however hard I try, I will never be world championship material. But there are players I know who try just as hard as I do, and don't reach even my level. And there are people who have played for decades, and not just "socially", who seem unable to grasp even the simplest of plays.

One can study any number of books or get tuition from the best tutors and still not get above one's personal ceiling. It is as true for bridge as it is for every human activity.

Eric

To me, bridge has two parts, the technique part and the mental part. In some sense, one may not master the complicate technique in his life, but his bridge on the mental part can still improve. It's a game of decipline, a game of concentration, a game of understanding the balance, a game of understanding life, and a game of trying to follow the nature. In that sense, nobody is really limited. Yes, you might not be a world champion, be you still can be a great player. You might not be a great player, but you can be a great person. Not like the physical sports, bridge is a game that If one tries hard, one can always improve.

I have never been convinvced by any distinction between physical and mental. There is a fastest speed I could possibly run at, but there is also maximum level of concentration I could attain, a maximum level of understanding I could have. and so on.

I would agree that one can always improve, but only in the sense that one can never quite reach one's own maximum potential. But here, the improvements will get smaller and smaller as one does approach one's best. It is like the sum of the sequence 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 etc. The partial sums get bigger all the time, and they get as close as you like to 1, but they will never reach it, let alone exceed it.

But while the improvements are still measurable, I will carry on trying.

Eric

[Chamaco]

Quote

Maybe the terms "novice" and "beginner" are unfortunate. How would you rate yourself if you had played for 30 years but still not reached the "intermediate" level?

"Tea-table bridge player"

[han]

I have very little experience playing with beginners when online, but I have often played with people that just learned to play bridge. These games are tough, because there's always the conflict between doing well and playing good bridge. I usually want them to like bridge, so I try to get a good result.

I try to play normal, except for these things:

-Beginners often have a hard time doubling, so I double quite a bit more. When they sacrifice and I'm not sure whether to bid a level higher, I always double. If you pass and partner passes too, you are both going to feel bad.

-Beginners don't like to see how badly they play. Make sure you are the one writing down the score, and bid somewhat conservatively when they are going to be declarer.

-Defense is usually the worst part of a true beginner's game. At matchpoints, make sure the opponents don't get to the spot the field is in.

-In my experience young and talented beginners enjoy conventions. Give them something unusual (but sound) to play, to make them feel different from the rest. This also helps to randomize the results .