BBO Discussion Forums: 2-suited overcalls - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

2-suited overcalls Views?

#1 User is offline   Wackojack 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 917
  • Joined: 2004-September-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:England
  • Interests:I have discovered that the water cooler is a chrono-synclastic infundibulum

Posted 2004-September-13, 09:37

I wanted a system of overcalling with 55 hands without ambiguity using cue bids and 2NT only, which would allow partner to give suit preference at no higher than the 3-level. There is no bid for minor 55 as it is probably more of a liability than an asset as it is almost certainly going to be outbid unless there is a misfit. This is what I have come up with:

1-2 = +
1-2 = +
1 - 2NT = +
1 - 2NT = +

1-3 = +
1-3 = +
1 -2NT = +
1 -2NT = +
1-2 = +
1-2 min 4 = +
1-2 min3 = +
Remember:
2NT = suits close together
2 cue = suits further apart
3 minor suit cue = majors.

Is this or similar a recognised system? What do you think of it?
May 2003: Mission accomplished
Oct 2006: Mission impossible
Soon: Mission illegal
0

#2 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2004-September-13, 10:11

Welcome to the forum! :(

First of all, using 2NT and cuebids, you can only show 2 types of hands, not all 3. So you seem to sacrifice the 5-5m. You also seem to sacrifice the 1-2 bid for 2-suiters.

Actually, there's already some convention called Ghestem which uses cuebids, 2NT and 3, and it's able to show ALL 5-5 combinations without ambiguity. However, I don't like it really much, since it goes too high on certain hands imo. If I wanted to show my 2 suits immediatly, and ready to sacrifice the 3 bid for 2-suiters, I'd rather use it as follows:

1M-2M = 55+ OM +
1M-2NT = 55+ +
1M-3 = 55+ OM +

1m-2m = 55+ +
1m-2NT = 55+ Om +
1m-3 = 55+ Om +

But I still like Michael's cuebids and unusual more...

What I think of your method? I think it's playable, but the 1m-3m bids are a bit poor imo. Sometimes the par contract is 2M or 3m (for opps), and you go immediatly to the 3-level.

I also have a question: what do you mean with "min 3" and "min 4" in

Wackojack said:

1-2 min 4 = +
1-2 min3 = +

"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#3 User is offline   EricK 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,297
  • Joined: 2003-February-14
  • Location:England

Posted 2004-September-13, 10:20

You could also look at Roman Jump overcalls which use the cue bid and the next two bids to show all 5-5. The cue-bid shows the suits either side of opener's suit, and the other bids show the two suits above opener's and the two suit's below opener's respectively:

So eg over 1

2 = &
2 = &
2 = &

or over 1

2 = &
2 = &
2NT = &

Since you sometimes bid one of the suits, this puts more pressure on opps.

Eric
0

#4 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2004-September-13, 10:36

Cool, never seen this. But I rather like 2-suited overcalls to be either weak or GF... So they need to be forcing :D
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#5 User is offline   luke warm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,951
  • Joined: 2003-September-07
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Bridge, poker, politics

Posted 2004-September-13, 12:00

i might not understand the question.. doesn't michael's with unusual nt and hi/low show all 3 types?

1C/2C=S and H
1C/2NT=H and D
1C/3C=S and D

1D/2D=S and H
1D/2NT=H and C
1D/3C=S and C

1H/2H=S and D
1H/2NT=D and C
1H/3C=S and C

1S/2S=H and D
1S/2NT=D and C
1S/3C=H and C

like i said, maybe i missed the point of the question, but doesn't that structure show what you want?
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
0

#6 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2004-September-13, 12:42

I've been playing the following for 10 years now:

1M 2M = other major + a minor
1M 2NT = minors

1m 2m = majors
1m 2NT = other minor + a major

Usually 55, except...
1C 2C: can be 54 either way (2D asks best major)
1D 2D: can be 5H+4S
1H 2H: can be 5m+4S

Only two bids for all two-suiters, as you wanted :D I can post continuations if you want.
0

#7 User is offline   Flame 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,085
  • Joined: 2004-March-26
  • Location:Israel

Posted 2004-September-13, 13:36

luke warm, on Sep 13 2004, 01:00 PM, said:

i might not understand the question.. doesn't michael's with unusual nt and hi/low show all 3 types?

He wanted to use only 2 bids.
0

#8 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2004-September-13, 13:49

Flame, on Sep 13 2004, 08:36 PM, said:

luke warm, on Sep 13 2004, 01:00 PM, said:

i might not understand the question.. doesn't michael's with unusual nt and hi/low show all 3 types?

He wanted to use only 2 bids.

with the minors he uses 3 bids: cue, jump-cue and 2NT.
with the Majors he uses only 2 bids.

The problem with michaels is the ambiguity on the second suit, and it seems that's what our new friend wants removed. The price: 2-suited with both minors can't be bid anymore, unless with 3NT or 4NT perhaps, and cuebids with both Majors will result in a 3-level contract.
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#9 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2004-September-13, 15:37

Hi all- been busy at the Long beach regional last week so haven't been posting.

Two systems I play:

1. Overcall Structure (here's the 2 suited portion):

direct Q = suits higher and lower; 0-7 losers.
Jump overcall: That suit + equal or less of next immediately higher (roman); 5-7 losers.
2N = "Anchor Suit" + another; 0-4 losers. Anchor suits are 's over 1, 's over 1, 's over 1 and 's over 1.

2. Top and Bottom and extensions:

Q bid - top and bottom
2N - 2 lower
Dbl, and then the 2nd highest ranking suit: Shows the two highest suits.
Jump overcall in other minor over a minor opening: Shows that suit + 4 hearts.

Max Hardy's latest 2/1 book goes into more detail on this.
"Phil" on BBO
0

#10 User is offline   Wackojack 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 917
  • Joined: 2004-September-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:England
  • Interests:I have discovered that the water cooler is a chrono-synclastic infundibulum

  Posted 2004-September-13, 15:40

Free, on Sep 13 2004, 02:49 PM, said:

Flame, on Sep 13 2004, 08:36 PM, said:

luke warm, on Sep 13 2004, 01:00 PM, said:

i might not understand the question.. doesn't michael's with unusual nt and hi/low show all 3 types?

He wanted to use only 2 bids.

with the minors he uses 3 bids: cue, jump-cue and 2NT.
with the Majors he uses only 2 bids.

The problem with michaels is the ambiguity on the second suit, and it seems that's what our new friend wants removed. The price: 2-suited with both minors can't be bid anymore, unless with 3NT or 4NT perhaps, and cuebids with both Majors will result in a 3-level contract.
I also have a question: what do you mean with "min 3" and "min 4" in

QUOTE (Wackojack)
1♣-2♣ min 4 = ♠ +♦
1♣-2♦ min3 = ♠ +♦

Yep, you were right - I wanted the ambiguity removed. I like your suggestion, its easy to remember (same as "Luke Warm") but it does give up the one-suit pre-emptive 3 overcall. I was prepared to give up on the 55 as it is easy for opponents to overcall and often benefits them in declarer play.

Your question: With artificial club or short club in 5M systems a 2 overcall of 1 could be useful as natural and the 2 overcall is not much loss as 1 and 3 single suit overcalls are available.

Thanks for the help
:D
May 2003: Mission accomplished
Oct 2006: Mission impossible
Soon: Mission illegal
0

#11 User is offline   luke warm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,951
  • Joined: 2003-September-07
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Bridge, poker, politics

Posted 2004-September-13, 17:16

yes, everything seems to give up something, but to me michael's, u2nt, and hi/low is sooooo easy to remember and bids all 2 suiters
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
0

#12 User is offline   dugite 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 17
  • Joined: 2003-September-20
  • Location:Oz

Posted 2004-September-18, 22:19

G'day.
I must say that I agree with ErickK.Roman Jump Overcalls do it all.All the 5/5 combinations are catered for with no ambiguities.You know exactly what suits are held.
Another advantage that I feel RJO's have over Michaels and others is the ability to use at any level.You are only constrained by your level of bravery(or foolhardiness)as to how high to bid.For example pass-3 -5 is a very strong with and .I have even used it at the 6 level 4 was opened and my call was 5 meaning "5+ in both majors please give preference".Of course my hand was very strong.My partner called 6 and the slam rolled in.We were the only pair in the room who called 6 most were in 4 making +1(my hand hand 7 and 5 [_HE)This was in a redpoint event.I'm not sure if other 2 suited overcalls can and are used at higher levels but I have never seen or even heard of them being used over 2 level or higher openings(not counting unusual 4NT).


Bye for now
Dugite
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users