BBO Discussion Forums: strong diamond system - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

strong diamond system questions

#41 User is offline   gwnn 

  • Csaba the Hutt
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,027
  • Joined: 2006-June-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:bye

Posted 2013-September-13, 02:10

Kungsgeten, I know Magic Diamond, and I hated it exactly because of this 1C opening. You could get terribly preempted in no time on hands where even Aunt Millie would find her major-suit fit. Opening 1C on hands like 5-5 majors is pretty awful. Yes, precision also opens 1C with a certain strength but there you have the safe knowledge that at least when you get in trouble you are strong so you can bid more freely as opener. Plus, 13-17/15-17 balanced comes up much more often than 16+.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
0

#42 User is offline   PrecisionL 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 893
  • Joined: 2004-March-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Knoxville, TN, USA
  • Interests:Diamond LM (5500+ MP) District 7, Unit 165, E. Tennessee

Posted 2013-September-13, 05:27

 gwnn, on 2013-September-13, 00:33, said:

PrecisionL: what do you do with 13-16 hands with a 5cM?


Open 1NT with a good 11-14 hcp.

Open 1 with 15-16 hcp without 5 Controls (A=2, K=1),

otherwise upgrade to 1 strong & artificial and a good 16 hcp or more with 5+ controls.
Ultra Relay: see Daniel's web page: https://bridgewithda...19/07/Ultra.pdf
C3: Copious Canapé is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)

Played Mosca (Nightmare-Fantunes-Millennium like) system with Canapé, 11-14 NT.

Santa Fe Precision published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail Club. 2020: C3 Reborn - T-Precision with Relays & 4cd M. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Weiss Simplified (Canapé & Relay). 2022: Canary Modernized.
0

#43 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 923
  • Joined: 2012-April-15
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2013-September-13, 05:34

Yes, I've played that 1C opening too (but in a forcing pass context). Just answered your question, but perhaps this isn't what PrecisionL uses (I realized that it was Free who described this kind of opening). The 1C opening is pretty bad, but the idea is that the weak openings should compensate. 1C worked out okay for us, but the knowledge of the risks made us change system. We also played in pretty weak fields, better opponents would probably bid more against his kind of opening.
0

#44 User is offline   JmBrPotter 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 84
  • Joined: 2009-September-02
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Clio, South Carolina, USA
  • Interests:Bicycling, Chess, Computer Science, Go, Hiking, Learning, Military Simulation Games, Photography, Quality Improvement, Reading (SciFi, nonfiction), Statistics, Teaching, Two-Player Partial Information Games, Two-Player Total Information Games, oh! I almost forgot---Duplicate Contract Bridge playing and directing

Posted 2013-October-06, 16:46

 Free, on 2011-April-21, 01:08, said:

The biggest disadvantage of strong systems is that the strong opening needs more HCP. A precision 1 opening can easily be 15+ or 16+HCP, while a strong 1 opening needs more (because the lack of space). This makes all limited openings less attractive imo.


Partner and I play GCC compliant methods with 1 (11+ HCP) and 1 (15+ HCP) both artificial and forcing for one round. We sort out the "good" hands, "fert" hands, 3-suiters, and the "normal 1m" hands with opener's first rebid (usually). Since we open 1NT with balanced 10-14 counts and 1M with 4-card suits (but always unbalanced and either 1-suited or 2-suited), our 1m openings tend to be (1) hands that natural systems will open 1m with a real minor, (2) 5M4m and 5M5m two-suiters (Rebid the M and conceal the m with the first rebid.), (3) balanced hands with 15+ HCP, (4) 3-suiters, and (5) unbalanced strong hands with 1 or 2 long suits.

Either a natural NT response to the 1m opening or the 1m opener's first rebid usually gets us into a natural auction with (1) opener captain in a NT sequence, (2) responder captain in a suit sequence, (3) responder captain in a NT sequence, or (4) opener announcing (with either a 1M rebid or a 2 rebid) a powerful 1-suited or 2-suited hand forcing to 3-suit. This very workable and even leaves all four 2-suit openings for weak two bids (or your favorite specialty opening two bid{s}).
:-)

Brian Potter

e-mail: ClioBridgeGuy >at< att >dot< net
URL: Bridge at the Village

Bridge is more than just a card game. It is a cerebral sport. Bridge teaches you logic, reasoning, quick thinking, patience, concentration, and partnership skills.
- Martina Navratilova
0

#45 User is offline   PrecisionL 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 893
  • Joined: 2004-March-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Knoxville, TN, USA
  • Interests:Diamond LM (5500+ MP) District 7, Unit 165, E. Tennessee

Posted 2013-October-07, 17:59

Results from Naples, FL Regional playing Strong Diamond with weak Major Openings

5 Sessions, won 9.5 MP and 2nd overall in B in 1 session out of 5. System did OK, no major flaws discovered in a sample of 130 hands. Scratched in every session. Analysis continuing ....
Ultra Relay: see Daniel's web page: https://bridgewithda...19/07/Ultra.pdf
C3: Copious Canapé is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)

Played Mosca (Nightmare-Fantunes-Millennium like) system with Canapé, 11-14 NT.

Santa Fe Precision published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail Club. 2020: C3 Reborn - T-Precision with Relays & 4cd M. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Weiss Simplified (Canapé & Relay). 2022: Canary Modernized.
0

#46 User is offline   PrecisionL 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 893
  • Joined: 2004-March-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Knoxville, TN, USA
  • Interests:Diamond LM (5500+ MP) District 7, Unit 165, E. Tennessee

Posted 2013-October-11, 13:31

 gwnn, on 2013-September-13, 02:10, said:

Plus, 13-17/15-17 balanced comes up much more often than 16+.

15-17 balanced comes up 5-6% of the time (depends how you treat 5M332 hands)

13-17 balanced comes up about 12%

1C 16+ comes up 9.8% (playing 1NT openings < 16 hcp)

Thus, much more often = 22% more!
Ultra Relay: see Daniel's web page: https://bridgewithda...19/07/Ultra.pdf
C3: Copious Canapé is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)

Played Mosca (Nightmare-Fantunes-Millennium like) system with Canapé, 11-14 NT.

Santa Fe Precision published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail Club. 2020: C3 Reborn - T-Precision with Relays & 4cd M. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Weiss Simplified (Canapé & Relay). 2022: Canary Modernized.
0

#47 User is offline   gwnn 

  • Csaba the Hutt
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,027
  • Joined: 2006-June-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:bye

Posted 2013-October-15, 10:03

Sorry, I meant "13-17 unbalanced or 15-17 balanced." How is it then?
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
0

#48 User is offline   campboy 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,347
  • Joined: 2009-July-21

Posted 2013-October-19, 03:32

 gwnn, on 2013-October-15, 10:03, said:

Sorry, I meant "13-17 unbalanced or 15-17 balanced." How is it then?

13-17 any is ~22.70% and 13-14 balanced is ~5.93%, so "13-17 unbal or 15-17 bal" is ~16.8%.
0

#49 User is offline   gwnn 

  • Csaba the Hutt
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,027
  • Joined: 2006-June-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:bye

Posted 2013-October-19, 03:50

Thanks! Sorry for my laziness in looking it up..
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
0

#50 User is offline   spotlight7 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 342
  • Joined: 2009-March-21

Posted 2018-November-19, 22:17

 NickRW, on 2011-April-21, 09:24, said:

Trying to say which is better out of strong or is a bit like saying which is better out of strong or weak NT. Or 5cM versus 4cM versus 5443 openings. People obviously have strong opinions about these things and mount some good arguments, but convincing sceptics with arguments that are truly encompassing and quantative (i.e. actually proving your point) is another matter altogether.

One thing I would say in reference to someone else's comments in this thread is that it is often said that the 1M openings in strong are better because they are more limited (the 1 opener being a point or two less usually than 1 in a strong system). Well, I would say that this has merit in the uncontested auction. I would also say that, in the contested auction, having the 1M opener as relatively weak at its top end benefits the opponents in that it is a little easier to balance. So I think this argument is relatively weak - given that there are a lot of contested auctions.

Nick

A flippant PS. I'm sure you could devise a decent system around a strong 1 opener - with I suppose 1m being a transfer to the majors and 1S being minors. Nobody is going to play it - but I'm sure it would be basically playable.


Reese played the Little Major in International competition. 1C=Hs, 1D=Ss, 1H=20+ and 1S=minor/minors.
0

  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users