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heart slam help required on 5nt bid

#1 User is offline   sceptic 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 11:22


Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     -     1
 Pass  1    Pass  2NT
 Pass  3    Pass  4
 Pass  4NT   Pass  5
 Pass  5NT   Pass  6
 Pass  6    Pass  Pass
 Pass  


Hi can you help me out here please.

on this biiding 5nt asks for me to bid my first K, I am not 100% happy with this , but that is our agreement.

Can you tell me what options I have bidding after 5nt and should I be in grand slam?

Thanks
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#2 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 11:43

When using the normal stuff, your partner can still ask about a King by bidding that suit. Here 6 would ask to bid 7 with K. The problem with this hand is not if you have or have not the K, but if you also have the J! And I don't see any immediate sollution to that problem unless starting a full relay system... :D

You can clearly see the problem if partner needs K. Here it's clear he needs it to be in grand, but if you had answered 6 instead of 6, then you still might miss the grand, since you don't know if partner was searching for K or K.
A sollution is to play Kickback: use 4 as RKC (when there's no confusion possible) instead of 4NT. Then you can ask for Kings with 5 and you can show what King(s) you have immediatly:
5NT = 0/3 Kings
6m = that King or the 2 other Kings
6 = K or both minor Kings
Usually it should be clear what you have, and otherwise you can still use the next bid to ask if partner has 2 (or 3) Kings.
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#3 User is offline   skorchev 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 11:55

1.) When you have points, good fit (and knowledge(sometimes)) for grand slam you should play it.

-You have 32 hcp, 5kc, Queen of trump.
-You have a GOOD fit.
=> Play grand slam.

There are 13 easy tricks - 1+6+4+2, so you don't need knowledge to made it. The once problem is how to bid it.
This bidding looks good for me except 6. In my club standard 5NT is invite for grand slam and the options are direct bid at 6/7 level on the trump or bid any extra values.
With 4 South shows his control and by North's cards 4 means K for sure (South can't has a singleton because he bid 2NT(bal hand)) => 6 doesn't show nothing more and that's an empty bid. If you play "my" model after 5NT you should bid 6(extra values) and 6 would means KQ at least. Now when North knows South's extra values in then he can bid 7.


Stefan
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#4 User is offline   sceptic 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 12:04

another question I have now, is I bid 4!C showing first or second round control.

SO this means after 5NT (we both know I have K!C as the 5NT shows all 5 keys, so should I have bid 6!D showing K of diamond?
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#5 User is offline   sceptic 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 12:07

actually I know I have K clubs my p could think I have a singleton
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#6 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 12:31

Sceptic, you don't bid 2NT with a singleton . So you must have the K, and show K immediatly imo.
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#7 User is offline   sceptic 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 12:40

hehe ok point taken
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#8 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 13:04

regardlss of how you answer 5NT, 5nt means a 7 trtial, therefore you ahve all the aces, so when you have the rest don´t bother abotu answering and bid 7.

The problem here is you have J wich is the 13th trticks, kinda hard to find for anyone I think.

but rememebr that after 5NT if you lets say KQJXX somewhere, it is not tiem to asnwert, it is time to bid 7NT.
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#9 User is offline   helium 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 13:34

i THINK WRONG HAND WENT TO BLACKWOOD, NORTH SHOULD q-BID 4, AND SUTH SHOULD BE BIDDING 4 NT.
foole me once, shame one you!!
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#10 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 13:43

Helium, WHY DO YOU ALWAYS TYPE WITH CAPITAL LETTERS??? You can try small ones as well...

Anyway, North has all controls. So why should he bid 4, get a 4 response, and what's next? And how can South find Q anyway??? He can only count 11 tricks! :D

Perhaps next time when responding with capital letters, you can try posting something that makes SENSE... :)
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#11 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 14:20

1-1
2NT-3
4-4
4NT-5 (or 5)
6-6NT
7

I thin that makes sense, south can count 1,6,2+ 4 if Q on partner´s hands.
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#12 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 15:51

Yes this makes sense Fluffy, but do you see any beginners/intermediates find that bidding? I think that's more for advanced+, but ok...
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#13 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 16:52

actually it has a small disadvantage, after 6 partner coudl have AKQ and could not count 13 tricks since he is missing K (he doesn´t know if we have Q or K)
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#14 User is offline   helium 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 16:58

Free, on Sep 9 2004, 02:43 PM, said:

Helium, WHY DO YOU ALWAYS TYPE WITH CAPITAL LETTERS???  You can try small ones as well...

Anyway, North has all controls.  So why should he bid 4, get a 4 response, and what's next?  And how can South find Q anyway???  He can only count 11 tricks!  :D

Perhaps next time when responding with capital letters, you can try posting something that makes SENSE...  :)

Hi free:)
sounds like u need to get laid or somthing, seems u have a lot of frustration inside since u get this upset over me useing big letters:)))

but if it helps u sleep atnigh ill use small letter when i post my nosens ok?:))

(ps my english isnt that good eather so i hope u dont choke on my typos:))



And agree whit fluffy a 4Q- is better then a Q.
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#15 User is offline   helium 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 17:12

Free, on Sep 9 2004, 04:51 PM, said:

Yes this makes sense Fluffy, but do you see any beginners/intermediates find that bidding? I think that's more for advanced+, but ok...

Well they Q-bid clubs and use 5 ace blackwood, whats so different in Q-bidding too????
foole me once, shame one you!!
foole me twice, shame on me....!!
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#16 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 17:16

helium, on Sep 10 2004, 12:12 AM, said:

Free, on Sep 9 2004, 04:51 PM, said:

Yes this makes sense Fluffy, but do you see any beginners/intermediates find that bidding?  I think that's more for advanced+, but ok...

Well they Q-bid clubs and use 5 ace blackwood, whats so different in Q-bidding too????

Well ok, if they know 5 ace blackwood (also known as "RKC" :) ) and Q-bidding and when to skip controls, then what is this doing in a Beginner/intermediate forum? :D

helium said:

Hi free:)
sounds like u need to get laid or somthing, seems u have a lot of frustration inside since u get this upset over me useing big letters:)))

You're absolutely right, it's been hours ago!! :)
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#17 User is offline   luke warm 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 17:43

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

yeah, whatever *grin*
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#18 User is offline   sceptic 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 23:44

Quote



Fluffy, we play italian cue bids, so if me and p were reversed I would bid 4 diamonds after 4 clubs.

Why would you bid 4 spades (is that because you Q bid aces only?) or is there another reason?
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#19 User is offline   sceptic 

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Posted 2004-September-09, 23:45

sigh so much for my cyber skills, I cant even cut and paste properly hehe
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