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The impossible 2S bid

#21 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-March-30, 10:44

View Postfred, on 2011-March-30, 10:34, said:

A suprisingly little known fact is that it is possible (and almost free) to make better use of the impossible 2S. A simple example:



You can play that 2S here means either a strong diamond raise or a good 3C bid. If responder has a lesser hand with long clubs, he bids 3C directly over 2D.

Over 2S, opener bids 2NT (no worries about wrong-siding notrump since responder has already bid 1NT) and responder bids 3C with the good club hand and something else when he has a diamond raise.

Fred Gitelman
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"..and something else when he has a diamond raise" What does the something else show? A suit you have values, or shortage as compared to a simple raise to 3?
1 1N 2 2 2N 3
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#22 User is offline   fred 

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Posted 2011-March-30, 10:59

View Postjillybean, on 2011-March-30, 10:44, said:

"..and something else when he has a diamond raise" What does the something else show? A suit you have values, or shortage as compared to a simple raise to 3?
1 1N 2 2 2N 3


You can handle this however you want. For example...

- Direct 3D over 2D suggests roughly 5-card support and roughly 8 HCP
- Direct 3NT over 2D suggests a high card maximum with 6-card diamond support and stoppers in both spades and clubs
- Bidding 2S then 3D suggests a high card maximum (roughly 11 HCP) with strong diamond support but nothing special in terms of distribution or honor layout
- Bidding 2D then 3H suggests a high card maximum with strong diamond support and a doubleton honor in hearts
- Bidding 2D then 3S suggests a high card maximum with 6-card diamond support and values in spades
- Bidding 2D then 3NT suggests a high card maximum with 6-card diamond support and values in clubs

Also fine to play some of these bids as shortness-showing. FWIW that it what I do in my regular partnerships (but we play semi-forcing notrump so 2D really shows diamonds so evaulating for notrump purposes is less likely to be important for us when responder has a massive hand in support of diamonds).

Bottom line is that just about any agreements about these bids, regardless of whether or not you adopt my suggestion regarding 2S, is better than having no agreements.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
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#23 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2011-March-30, 13:27

View Postfred, on 2011-March-30, 10:34, said:

A suprisingly little known fact is that it is possible (and almost free) to make better use of the impossible 2S. A simple example:



You can play that 2S here means either a strong diamond raise or a good 3C bid. If responder has a lesser hand with long clubs, he bids 3C directly over 2D.

Over 2S, opener bids 2NT (no worries about wrong-siding notrump since responder has already bid 1NT) and responder bids 3C with the good club hand and something else when he has a diamond raise.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com


Another idea:

http://cuebiddingatb...s-extended.html
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#24 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2011-April-01, 13:08

We also play something fancy, with bidding after a reverse as an analogy. We play 1C - 1H - 2D - 2S as a relay on bad hands (Ingberman or whatever it's called) and direct bids as forcing, as is very common. So similarly:

1H - 1NT
2D -

nb our 2D bid promises at least 4 diamonds

2S = a bad hand or some obscure very good hands
2NT = natural, non-forcing
3C = constructive with clubs
3D = good hand with 4-diamonds
3H = limit raise without diamond support
3S = splinter for diamonds
3NT = natural maximum with something nice in diamonds
4C = both minors, good hand
4D = super hand for diamonds

1H - 1NT
2D - 2S opener usually bids 2NT unless with a very very strange hand, then
3C = weak, to play
3D = weak
3H = limit raise with a diamond fit
3S = heart singleton, 5-card diamond support
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#25 User is offline   Xiaolongnu 

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Posted 2011-October-12, 01:45

A teammate of mine suggested the following use for the 2 bid. Suppose the bidding goes 1 - 1NT - 2 - 2, then 2 shows doubleton heart, 4 card club, 3 card spade and 4 card diamond, in other words, 3244 with the intention of letting partner choose between 2NT, 3 and 3. Is this a good idea?
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#26 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2011-October-12, 15:49

View Postfred, on 2011-March-30, 10:34, said:

A suprisingly little known fact is that it is possible (and almost free) to make better use of the impossible 2S.


The only time I can remember using the bid pard opened 1, I bid 1nt forcing and pard bid 2.

I had something like Axx, void, QJTx, KJTxxx and we sailed into slam.

I like the idea of Fred's treatment but how would you handle the above hand if pard bid 2 over the forcing nt? It's a good 3 bid OR a strong raise unless your pard has only 3 of them.
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#27 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2011-October-12, 21:44

Playing normal 2/1 methods you could just bid 2S as a good diamond raise, and if partner has 3532 he will usually bid 2N, then you can bid 3C showing clubs. If partner goes back to diamonds he will have 4+ diamonds.

Playing freds methods it might be more difficult, but personally I wouldn't be willing to bid 2S then 3D non forcing even if it showed the nuts, so I would bid 2S then 3S and hope it worked out.
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#28 User is offline   ria123 

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Posted 2011-October-19, 13:17

i think it will be strong raise in both minors
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