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opps opem 3rd seat, easy?

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-March-18, 17:01

MP V vs. N

(P) P (1♦) ?

Q987, KJ, J2, AQT65
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#2 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2011-March-18, 17:06

I can live with 2c or pass at this vul.
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#3 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-March-19, 01:52

Yes, easy. 2♣. This highly obstructive overcall should be made as often as possible.
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#4 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2011-March-19, 03:01

No thanks.

This would be a minimum overcall for me if not vul, i.e. I would pass without the ♣10.
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#5 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2011-March-19, 03:45

Partner is a passed hand so we are unlikely to have game. If partner was unpassed I would still pass but feel less good about it. Nonvul I would bid, though, regardless of position.
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#6 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-March-19, 03:53

Totally agree with Nuno here. 2C it is.
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#7 User is offline   Lurpoa 

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Posted 2011-March-19, 06:07

View Postjillybean, on 2011-March-18, 17:01, said:

MP V vs. N

(P) P (1♦) ?

Q987, KJ, J2, AQT65


I would bid 2♣.

If I give points: 2♣= 90% pass=10%
Just to say, that If my P would pass, I would not blame him, but I am an easy balancer.
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#8 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2011-March-19, 06:59

2♣ at MP, as for Sabine's rule. 2♣ creates problems for the opps. Obvious pass at IMPs though.
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#9 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-March-19, 09:06

Like many, I bid 2♣



X-3 for -800

This was an automatic overcall for me however my partner has warned me of these hands before and says he would rather I overcall
1♠ here. Others say you need a 6th ♣ to make the 2♣ call.

Gerben, I shouldn't be asking but what is "Sabine's rule"?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
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#10 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2011-March-19, 09:10

I don't think the spade suit is good enough to overcall with only four cards. 2♦ (top and bottom cue bid, a là Hardy) gets you to 2♠.
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#11 User is offline   Mbodell 

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Posted 2011-March-19, 17:06

View Postjillybean, on 2011-March-19, 09:06, said:

Gerben, I shouldn't be asking but what is "Sabine's rule"?


Get and read "I love this game" by Sabine. She talks about how 2♣ over 1♦ and 2♦ over 1♣ should be bid as often as possible because it is hard for opponents to sort out the majors.

I'd also bid 2♣ automatic at MP with your hand. I probably wouldn't anymore at teams.
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#12 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-March-20, 08:35

I don't have a strong preference for 2♣ or Pass, but 1♠ is out of the question for me. The suit quality is poor.
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#13 User is offline   tolvyrj 

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Posted 2011-March-20, 13:29

Theres a convention invented for these type of hands by polish i guess; its called the Raptor. After one level opening u bid 1Nt which tells just this type of hand, one four card major and 5 card minor.
Its designed to help in situations just like this, no T/O dbl possibility and if u bid u minor in 2 level u 4 card major will bite the dust.
They say its more useful in long run to use 1Nt as Raptor than a bid that tells 15-18 bal. hand. Is it, i dont know, but i know its pretty popular convention at least among tournament players in Europe.
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#14 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-March-21, 08:34

The point of bidding 2♣ is to preempt opps. I haven't played Raptor (although something similar) but bidding a Raptor (pretty much forcing) 1NT isn't as preemptive as a NF 2♣.

The hand is rubbish, so I'd rather bid 2♣ than 1NT Raptor.
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#15 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-March-21, 09:51

sign me up for -800.

too bad CHO has two clubs and not one, he could have redoubled. like this it doesn't seem normal but maybe he gets a read on a confident pass?
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#16 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2011-March-21, 10:02

2C.

Unless you play Polish NT / Raptor, the convention was made for this
kind of hand.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
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#17 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-March-21, 10:05

View Postgwnn, on 2011-March-21, 09:51, said:

sign me up for -800.

too bad CHO has two clubs and not one, he could have redoubled. like this it doesn't seem normal but maybe he gets a read on a confident pass?

Yes, we talked about that but thought it wasn't automatic.

There's definately 2 camps here, those that would and those that wouldn't and I'm not sure where I sit.
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
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#18 User is offline   tolvyrj 

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Posted 2011-March-21, 10:46

U can sign me up to -800 camp too, no way im going to pass with this hand in MP`s. Ok they hammered me down -800, but im not alone u see, most of the field r in the same mess, so i havent lost anyzing ( well not much).
This is a horror film case what can happen if u take action here, most likely u get a bad result if u dont take the action here. Lets see; u pass - LHO bid 1Nt - prd pass- RHO bids 2♦and now? Do u take action now, or become the legendary 2♦guys; those who let oppos play 2♦when all others where from +110 to +170 in they own game :rolleyes:
Thats MP´s; u bid like others do, not as u shld do.
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#19 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2011-March-21, 12:17

Oh well, -800, next board. And yes, do get "I love this game". I would send you mine but it's signed :)
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#20 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-March-24, 05:46

Its an automatic pass at any form of scoring or vulnerability, you guys are really sick. 2♣ shows 6 card suit and we have 5, we would need a lot of extras to bid with just 5.

Please jilly, learn from this wonderful -800 instead of feeling in good company and repeating it.
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