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Strong 5-4-3-1 hand in Silodor Pairs

#1 User is offline   BudH 

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Posted 2011-March-18, 10:28



Playing in a nationally rated 4-session pair game at the Louisville NABC, you pick up on the first board of the second session after a 53% first session,

KQ754
AK63
Q42
A

Playing a 2/1 system with a forcing notrump where your partnership opening bids are moderately sound, the auction proceeds

1 1NT (forcing)
2 2NT (invitational and passable)
?

1. Do you agree with 2? Or are you a 3 jump shifter?

2. On the given auction, would 3 be forcing?

3. What is your third call in the auction given?
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#2 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2011-March-18, 10:35

hand too good for mere 2h im a jump (3h)shifter

after 2n P has to have both minors stopped just bid 3n
odds of slam are tiny at best.

a 3d bid IMO is a bid designed to warn p against nt
generally a weakish 5440 hand thinking that 3d might
be last playable spot. KQxxx Axxx Kxxx void
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#3 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-March-18, 10:57

Whatever we think of 2H vs 3H, you chose it and it is a close choice, IMO. You can't unchoose it now, and expect pard to know 3D is slammish rather than skiddish.

So, 3NT seems to be the only choice ---accepting the invite.
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#4 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-March-18, 12:03

2 looks normal. Over 2NT, I think 3 is game-forcing, showing 5431, 5440, 5521 or possibly 6421. 5521 has to be included because 3 ought to be non-forcing. 6421 may have to be included because 3 is non-forcing, but that depends on your agremeents about how you would have bid earlier.

On this hand I'd just raise 2NT to 3NT. I'm not really interested in any other contract.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#5 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2011-March-18, 12:45

3nt looks easy now.

I play anybid over 2nt is gf now so I wont object to 3d here.

I think 2h or 3h is really close playing somewhat standard or soundish openings.

My guess is wc players lean towards 2h and nonexpert players lean towards 3h.
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#6 User is offline   chasetb 

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Posted 2011-March-18, 14:41

View Postmike777, on 2011-March-18, 12:45, said:

3nt looks easy now.

I play any bid over 2nt is gf now so I wont object to 3d here.

I think 2h or 3h is really close playing somewhat standard or soundish openings.

My guess is wc players lean towards 2h and nonexpert players lean towards 3h.

1.) I agree that better player will tend to bid 2 rather than 3. They tend to use the 3-level as GF and 5-5 or better, and 5-4 only if the suits are really strong. Partner will also tend to keep the bidding open after 2, knowing partner could be as strong as this. A few World Class players play Gazzilli - they would bid 2 instead of 2, showing several hand types, a GF hand like this being one of them.

2.) 3 is absolutely forcing - I would only use it to show a 5-4-4-0 or a 5-4-3-1 with a spot card in Clubs, and good Diamonds, not what this hand is.

3.) Slam is very unlikely, so just bid 3NT and be content to make it.
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#7 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2011-March-18, 15:28

3h on the 2nd round - you need to push the boat out with the majors because unlike a 2m rebid, partner will not always keep the bidding open with false preference or a new suit on the type of moderate hands which allow game to make.
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#8 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-March-18, 21:08

I agree with 2, i have high standarts for jump shift by opener.

3 is forcing, but there are upsides and downsides to bid it with this hand. Main problem bidding 3 is, pd will not be placing us with stiff Ace. he may misjudge. On the other hand if he has 5, slam is much more likely than everyone else here think it is, even with some wasted hcps, actually i wldn't be surprised to see people down in 3 NT when slam or any other game is cold if pd's holding is poor.

With an unimpressive % 53 first session, and having the space available to investigate before 3NT, i would lean towards 3 personally. But i totally understand 3NT bidders as well.
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#9 User is offline   BudH 

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Posted 2011-March-18, 22:47

View PostBudH, on 2011-March-18, 10:28, said:



Playing in a nationally rated 4-session pair game at the Louisville NABC, you pick up on the first board of the second session after a 53% first session,

KQ754
AK63
Q42
A

Playing a 2/1 system with a forcing notrump where your partnership opening bids are moderately sound, the auction proceeds

1 1NT (forcing)
2 2NT (invitational and passable)
?

1. Do you agree with 2? Or are you a 3 jump shifter?

2. On the given auction, would 3 be forcing?

3. What is your third call in the auction given?


For the curious,



Making 6 on any reasonable line of play. (Spades were 3-3 with the ace onside, trumps were 3-2, and the diamond ten was in front of the diamond suit. Clubs were 4-4 with KQxx on lead against 3NT. If he leads a LOW club, 3NT makes exactly 3. If he led low and clubs were 5-3, then 3NT would go down with 6 making.)
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#10 User is offline   Mbodell 

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Posted 2011-March-18, 22:54

View PostMrAce, on 2011-March-18, 21:08, said:

With an unimpressive % 53 first session, and having the space available to investigate before 3NT, i would lean towards 3 personally. But i totally understand 3NT bidders as well.


53% is fine in the first session for most folks, as qualifying for the next two sessions is more important then exact carryover, at least when you are closer to not qualifying then to the leaders.

I choose 3 at the table, but I might have chosen 2 with a different partner.

Oven 2nt I think 3nt is clear.
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#11 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-March-18, 23:08

Where is the hand South held during the auction?

Might not get to six, but would get to 5D, at least.

1S-1N
2H-2S (not strong enough for 2NT opposite today's openers)
3D*-5D (Great Diamonds)
?

*3D, this time, would be strong and patterned.
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#12 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2011-March-18, 23:31

View PostBudH, on 2011-March-18, 22:47, said:

For the curious,



Making 6 on any reasonable line of play. (Spades were 3-3 with the ace onside, trumps were 3-2, and the diamond ten was in front of the diamond suit. Clubs were 4-4 with KQxx on lead against 3NT. If he leads a LOW club, 3NT makes exactly 3. If he led low and clubs were 5-3, then 3NT would go down with 6 making.)




2nt geez I bid 2s
unless we play roth/stone

I mean pard can have 11 hcp and 54


1s=1nt
2h=2s
3d=
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#13 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-March-19, 02:24

Well.. 2/3 isn't really the issue. The slam is a bit unbiddable.

Over 2NT, just bid 3.
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#14 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-March-19, 06:36

Our sessions in the Silodor were horrific and I also held this hand. I regretted my choice of 3 to show (among other hands) a GF with 4 hearts. This is at least a mild overbid but I confess I wanted to road test a treatment late in an event weren't going to Q in.

The sensible continuation is 2 -2 - 3. 6 should be biddable now and its only a matter of what 'Bluhmer' you want to roll out - 4 or 5.
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#15 User is offline   BudH 

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Posted 2011-March-19, 08:42

View Postmike777, on 2011-March-18, 23:31, said:

2nt geez I bid 2s
unless we play roth/stone

I mean pard can have 11 hcp and 54


1s=1nt
2h=2s
3d=



My partner chose the aggressive 2NT rebid. If he rebids 2S and I bid 3D, he likely will jump to 5D. At matchpoints, I might possibly bid 6D expecting AKxxx at least in diamonds, although it would likely be less than a 50% slam.

Hmmmm... come to think of it, partner with KJT9xxx in diamonds and Jx of spades or Qx of hearts and small clubs will probably bid 5D with that, also. It would be silly to be in 6D off two aces!

Finished 43rd out of 244 pairs that started the Silodor. Not bad, but could have been better. (But we all say that, don't we....)

Bud H
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#16 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-March-21, 02:52

Do people really want to be in 6 on these two hands?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#17 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2011-March-21, 05:00

Agree with 2. 3 is not wrong of course. If p passes 2 we might be too low. Then again, we might not.

Now 3 is probably not forcing although that is not obvious. Some kind of choice-of-game is possibly a better agreement than the rare 5440 11-count.

Anyway, 3NT now. Regardless of the meaning of 3. I want p to play 3NT, period.
pretty good defense against a grand with no overtricks given away. --- johnu
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