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Priorities in Responses to NMF

Poll: Kxx, Axxx, Kxxx, Ax (23 member(s) have cast votes)

1D-1S-1N-2C-?

  1. 3N (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. 3S (2 votes [8.70%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.70%

  3. 3H (7 votes [30.43%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 30.43%

  4. 2N (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. 2S (2 votes [8.70%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.70%

  6. 2H (12 votes [52.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 52.17%

  7. other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-March-05, 23:39

Pickup Partner and I disagreed about this. Probably two separate questions buried in there, but we can sort it out. Thanks!
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#2 User is offline   dcohio 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 00:00

View PostBbradley62, on 2011-March-05, 23:39, said:

Pickup Partner and I disagreed about this. Probably two separate questions buried in there, but we can sort it out. Thanks!


3♥ showing a max with 4♥. If partner bids 3NT, I'll convert to 4♠
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#3 User is offline   Siegmund 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 00:11

Quite possibly more than two separate questions. But, for the two most obvious questions:

With cards suitable for both a heart bid and a spade bid, hearts first, to leave room for partner, is my preference (but you will occasionally hear people who are firm believers in 'show support first' or 'unbid suit first.';
with a pickup partner I would never assume that we show min/max. With a regular partner you can agree to do so in a sensible way -- and by sensible I mean making use of 2N and 3C, NOT leaping to 3D/3H/3S automatically. Leaping to e.g. 3H and wasting a whole level of bidding space is IMO worse than waiting one more round of bidding to resolve strength.
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#4 User is offline   Mbodell 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 01:41

View Postdcohio, on 2011-March-06, 00:00, said:

3♥ showing a max with 4♥. If partner bids 3NT, I'll convert to 4♠


Agree. Although I'd much rather play 2-way NMF. But max with 4 hearts is what I have, and if partner tries 3nt he had to have some reason to bid and that must be 5 spades if not 4 hearts.
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#5 User is offline   sty2000 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 04:37

I bid 2♥. No need for jumping to 3♥, because it's forcing.
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#6 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 17:55

depends on the system.

I personally think best is if nmf promises a rebid and this is a 2♥ bid. but I would like 2♣ to be inv (whether or not it asks for 2♦, I think both are fine) and 2♦ artificial GF.
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#7 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 18:08

Not a matter of priorities for us ---since 3H shows exactly 3-4-4-2 AND a max 1NT rebid, all at the same time.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#8 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 18:48

View Postaguahombre, on 2011-March-06, 18:08, said:

Not a matter of priorities for us ---since 3H shows exactly 3-4-4-2 AND a max 1NT rebid, all at the same time.

Ditto...for the 1♠ response in a NMF auction: 1m - 1S, 2om - 3H ...
3H-jump = max w/4h and 3s
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#9 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-March-07, 09:22

I've never played NMF, but I have played checkback stayman in the past which starts the same.

Now it depends on what you agree: suits up the line, what is min or max,... Since it's a pickup partner, well, no agreements it is. ;)

For me 2♥ is natural but wouldn't deny a ♠ fit and wouldn't deny a max. Responder can still show his hand type and strength now. The biggest problem is with slam interest and ♥ fit, but responder can start with 4th suit forcing and rebid ♥ later on. It's not perfect, but it's a pickup partnership... Bidding 3♥ makes this only more difficult unless it specifically shows a fit as well.
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#10 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-March-07, 09:28

View Postaguahombre, on 2011-March-06, 18:08, said:

Not a matter of priorities for us ---since 3H shows exactly 3-4-4-2 AND a max 1NT rebid, all at the same time.
Cool. And if you had a minimum with the same distribution?
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#11 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-March-07, 09:41

Minimum responses to checkback stayman are:
2♦ = min no fit
2♠ = min with fit
I believe this is the same for NMF.

With max there are all sorts of possibilities. Extended CBS uses:
2♥ = max, 4♥, no fit
2NT = max, no 4♥, no fit
3♣+ = max, natural, with fit

3♥ is obviously perfect for this scheme, but I'm not aware that this is standard somehow. :unsure:
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
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#12 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-March-07, 10:38

View PostBbradley62, on 2011-March-07, 09:28, said:

Cool. And if you had a minimum with the same distribution?


Hardy adjunct, which has been around for a while:

1D-1S
1N-2C
?

2D=2spades, five diamonds, minimum
2H=2-4-4-3, minimum (inferential becuase 2-3-4-4 opened 1C, not 1D)
2S=3 spades and minimum
2NT=all maximums without 3 spades (since game is established, a heart fit can be found later.)
all 3-level bids are max with 3 spades and Pattern
3S=3-3-4-3
3H=3-4-4-2
3D=3-3-5-2
3C=3-2-5-3
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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