[EarlPurple]

This came up in a different discussion but it led me to think of the advantages of playing a 1♦ overcall (obviously the opps open 1♣) as follows:

1♦ overcall shows 4-4 in the majors and a weak hand. It is a semi-constructive bid.

If partner has not passed, the bid is limited to 6-9 points
If partner has passed, we can probably allow 5-11.

You may wish to vary it according to vulnerability. So maybe vulnerable you'd play it as 8-11 (partner not passed).

The purpose is two-fold
(1) allow partner to compete in the majors
(2) possibly disrupt the opponent's auction - while 1♦ itself removes no bidding space, you are hoping partner can with his bid.

The disadvantages are:
(1) You lose the natural 1♦ bid. With such a hand you may have to pass and hope to compete later.
(2) You may place the cards for the opponents.

This method could be used whether 1♣ was natural, prepared, strong or has multiple meanings. (If 1♣ is strong, you may decide to play a wide range even if partner has not yet passed).

By the way, would anyone be able to run a frequency simulation to see how often such a hand will occur?

[Chamaco]

EarlPurple, on Nov 2 2004, 07:24 PM, said:

1♦ overcall shows 4-4 in the majors and a weak hand. It is a semi-constructive bid.

I know some experts in Italy who play a similar scheme over Polish 1♣:

Dbl shows a good balanced hand, 1D show major oriented hand, can be a distributional hand which would not stand a penalty pass.

[jtfanclub]

What does 2♦ show over 1♣?

[Free]

I think it's a good idea. With real ♦s, just bid 2♦ and preempt more efficiently

[Flame]

Intresting, if you bid the 44 major with 1d (and not 1h) you can add more to it, maybe it can be weak or strong, but this makes it forcing or almost forcing.

[inquiry]

Chamaco, on Nov 2 2004, 03:33 PM, said:

EarlPurple, on Nov 2 2004, 07:24 PM, said:

1♦ overcall shows 4-4 in the majors and a weak hand. It is a semi-constructive bid.

I know some experts in Italy who play a similar scheme over Polish 1♣:

Dbl shows a good balanced hand, 1D show major oriented hand, can be a distributional hand which would not stand a penalty pass.

I like 1♦ over forcing (or polish) club to show hearts, 1♥ to show spades, 1♠ to show 4+♠ and a long minor, 1NT to show 4+ hearts and a long minor...

Sort of dualing raptor.

Ben

[the hog]

This is a concept that has been around for years - the Warsaw Diamond
(1C) 1D shows either Ds or 4+4+ in the Majors. It work quite well.

[tysen2k]

Since I play mostly ACBL GCC events, I couldn't use this against a natural 1♣ that shows 3+. However, any time I come across a "nebulous" club or diamond that could be less than 3, I rotate the meanings of double, 1NT, and the next step up.

So over 1♣:
1♦ = takeout
1NT = diamonds
Dbl = 15+ balanced

The 1♦ pretty much shows the majors, so it makes the opps cautious to bid them.
The 1NT shuts out the 1-level making it harder for the opps to find their 4-4 major fit.

You can use the same thing over a nebulous 1♦, substituting the 1♥ overcall.

Tysen

[mila85]

I play over strong 1♣ opening:
dbl=4♥-5+m
1♦=4♠-5+m
1M=length or shortness in that major (natural or like takeout dbl.)
1NT=length or shortness in clubs
2♣=length or shortness in diamonds
2♦=6c major (multi)
2♥=5♥+5 any
2♠=5♠+5m
2NT=5-5 minors
higher bids are natural and pre
pass first with strong hand

---

1♣ -2♣-(pas)-2♦
(pas)-2♥-(pas)-2♠
all pass

---

1♣ -2♣-(??)-3♥
....?

It's pretty funnny and it works (mainly against weaker opps)

[Free]

tysen2k, on Nov 2 2004, 11:40 PM, said:

Since I play mostly ACBL GCC events, I couldn't use this against a natural 1♣ that shows 3+. However, any time I come across a "nebulous" club or diamond that could be less than 3, I rotate the meanings of double, 1NT, and the next step up.

So over 1♣:
1♦ = takeout
1NT = diamonds
Dbl = 15+ balanced

The 1♦ pretty much shows the majors, so it makes the opps cautious to bid them.
The 1NT shuts out the 1-level making it harder for the opps to find their 4-4 major fit.

You can use the same thing over a nebulous 1♦, substituting the 1♥ overcall.

Tysen

Seems interesting, but why do you only use it opposite nebulous 1m openings? Why not with natural openings as well?

[jtfanclub]

Free, on Nov 3 2004, 07:42 AM, said:

Seems interesting, but why do you only use it opposite nebulous 1m openings? Why not with natural openings as well?

It wouldn't be GCC legal.

[tysen2k]

mila85, on Nov 3 2004, 07:40 AM, said:

I play over strong 1♣ opening:
dbl=4♥-5+m
1♦=4♠-5+m

I would caution against any Dbl or 1♦ overcall that is too frequent. Both of these bids give the strong club side more bidding space than if you shut up and pass. I'm fond of the system recommended by Rigal:

Dbl = a real (not weak) overcall in hearts
1♦ = a real overcall in spades

with your other overcalls not requiring any strength at all.

Tysen

[Free]

jtfanclub, on Nov 3 2004, 06:11 PM, said:

Free, on Nov 3 2004, 07:42 AM, said:

Seems interesting, but why do you only use it opposite nebulous 1m openings?  Why not with natural openings as well?

It wouldn't be GCC legal.

ROFL, ridiculous... So there's no real reason not to play this against real minor openings? I'll probably try this out some time.

[mila85]

tysen2k, on Nov 3 2004, 01:12 PM, said:

mila85, on Nov 3 2004, 07:40 AM, said:

I play over strong 1♣ opening:
dbl=4♥-5+m
1♦=4♠-5+m

I would caution against any Dbl or 1♦ overcall that is too frequent. Both of these bids give the strong club side more bidding space than if you shut up and pass.

Yes, you are right.
I use these bids because when you don't have a hand for takeout dbl. and you overcall your minor, it's very difficult to find 4-4 major fit. I don't like 4card overcalls.
The strength of this structure is in quick jumps by overcaller's partner.

---

(1♣)-1♦-(?)-4♠
....?
4♠ are quite safety because 5(6)-4 and 4-4 fits.
(dbl. and 1♦ are very often 6-4 because with 5(bad)-4-3-1 you bid your shortness.)

btw Against nat. openings I play 1nt overcall as 5-4 m+M