[whereagles]

IMPs vs good opps. Playing 2/1 you hold:

AKxxx
Qxx
ATx
Kx

You pard
1S 1NT
2D 2S
??

Questions:
1. Would you have prefered to open 1NT?
2. What is your call now?

[Free]

YES, how many more times? Just open these hands 1NT and all these silly problems are solved!!!

[vang]

this seems to be a classic example for why is bette to open 1NT. anyway, i'll rebid 2NT now and pray. maybe the card lays well, i can imagine some 8-9 hcp in part hand for 3nt. and even 'good opps' might miss a sharp defence on 3nt.

[Trpltrbl]

Am sure you are going to hear this a lot, but open 1 NT and all these problems are prevented.
Now I have no idea, it depends on my cards which you didn't show.
But in all likelyhood I will pass, just to get this hand over with.

Mike

[mr1303]

On Mike Lawrence's 2/1 cd he says that a 2NT rebid now should show a good 16 or 17 count. However, I'm not particularly impressed with 2NT here, as I don't think that 3NT will have chances. So I'm going to pass

[pclayton]

Playing a strong club system, we don't respond with 5-7 point hands with a dub trump, so 2N is usually safe. Our NT openings are 14-16, although I'd upgrade the subject hand to a 17 count, based on the nice 5 card suit and open it 1♣ and rebid 1N.

When I play a 12-14 NT, this hand can be an issue. To throw another issue into the pot, we play constructive raises. So, pard can have a raggy 6 count with 3 pieces in spades and bid this way. Yes, I'm reconsidering BART, which gets us around this problem (usually)

Its a judgment call on whether or not I take another call with this. With a good 10 count, pard will bid 2N himself. Its the fitting 8 or 9 count that I'm concerned with not missing a game. So, I suppose vul at Imps I'll move, but MP's, I might stay, I'm not sure.

[luke warm]

i'd open 1S, but that's cause my nt is either mini or weak... after 2S by pard, i bid 2nt... i imagine he's at lower end of his 1nt call, but he'll pass 2nt with the doubleton spade and 6, 7; he'll either pass or take me to 3S with 6-7 and 3 spades, and he'll bid 3nt with 8, 9 and 2 or 3 spades (unless his dist says 4S)

[whereagles]

Free, on Aug 17 2004, 12:44 PM, said:

YES, how many more times?  Just open these hands 1NT and all these silly problems are solved!!!

Not all your problems are solved by opening 1NT. You still have the very same same problem if you hold

AKxxx
Qx
ATxx
Kx

Even if you don't have a problem opening this one 1NT as well, are you still going to open 1NT on

AKxxx
Qxx
ATxx
K

or worse..

AKxxx
KQx
ATxx
x

There is a fundamental judgement problem here which the 1NT opening won't solve. True, it does help lessining the problem, but doesn't erradicate it. Oh.. and I did open 1NT when this came out in real life

[Free]

whereagles, on Aug 18 2004, 12:37 PM, said:

Free, on Aug 17 2004, 12:44 PM, said:

YES, how many more times?  Just open these hands 1NT and all these silly problems are solved!!!

Not all your problems are solved by opening 1NT. You still have the very same same problem if you hold

AKxxx
Qx
ATxx
Kx

Even if you don't have a problem opening this one 1NT as well, are you still going to open 1NT on

AKxxx
Qxx
ATxx
K

or worse..

AKxxx
KQx
ATxx
x

There is a fundamental judgement problem here which the 1NT opening won't solve. True, it does help lessining the problem, but doesn't erradicate it. Oh.. and I did open 1NT when this came out in real life

AKxxx-Qxx-ATxx-K is imo worse than AKxxx-KQx-ATxx-x, not the other way around...

[Chamaco]

whereagles, on Aug 17 2004, 11:26 AM, said:

IMPs vs good opps. Playing 2/1 you hold:

AKxxx
Qxx
ATx
Kx

You pard
1S 1NT
2D 2S
??

Questions:
1. Would you have prefered to open 1NT?
2. What is your call now?

In similar situations it is useful to adopt the "Gazzilli" convention:
2C rebid by opener = either natural OR artificial with a "half-reverse" hand or better, not suitable to a 3 level jump.
Reposnder should bid 2D atyificial with a hand worth 8/9+ hcp, otherwise he makes a natuarl weak bid, other than 2D.


In the current situation, opening 1NT will help; however, there are other hand patterns (6322/6331 hands with a mediocre 6 bagger) where you will have the same problem: the Gazzilli convention really helps in those cases.

[whereagles]

Free, on Aug 18 2004, 02:27 PM, said:

AKxxx-Qxx-ATxx-K is imo worse than AKxxx-KQx-ATxx-x, not the other way around...

Well, I meant that I would have less problems opening 1NT with 5431 singleton king than singleton low card.

Gazzilli: yeah, I knew some pairs playing that.

[Fluffy]

I don´t see the problem, that is a book example deal to rebid 2NT after bidding your 3 card minor, ,would bid the same way if weren´t playing forcing NT as well.

[MesSer]

imo partner showed a bad raise to 2S. That's what the 1NT+2S is for after all... I don't see any problem with this hand. I'd pass without a doubt and expect it to make 8 or possibly 9 tricks on a good day.

Since I didn't have any body (only xxxx:es in all suit), and, you need around 6 good hcp from partner I don't think you have much chance in 3NT. He would have bid 2S directly if he had those hcp's...

[paulhar]

MesSer, on Sep 8 2004, 11:47 AM, said:

imo partner showed a bad raise to 2S.

More likely partner has a doubleton spade and is preferring spades to diamonds.

Which is what he would do with: xx, KJxxx, xx, Axxx. (2H is silly here IMO, offering to play a possible 5-1 instead of a sure 5-2 and possible 6-2). Partner might even take a preference with 2 spades and 3 diamonds to cater to you having invitational strength (giving you another chance to bid.) They would be more likely to do this if they were willing to accept the invitation. No sense in giving partner a chance to invite when you're going to decline

Now, when you bid 2NT on the actual hand, partner, who's accepting, can bid 3H on the way to show 5, and the excellent heart game is reached!

Pard could easily have 9 or 10 for this sequence so I think I owe it to him to move again with the dealt hand.

I would have opened 1NT, but having been given these conditions, I'll make the best of them.

[luke warm]

paulhar, on Sep 8 2004, 08:16 PM, said:

MesSer, on Sep 8 2004, 11:47 AM, said:

imo partner showed a bad raise to 2S.

More likely partner has a doubleton spade and is preferring spades to diamonds.~~snip~~

yup, i think that's usually the case.. he *could* have 3 with 5, 6 points but usually that bidding shows 2 (in my experience)... i really do like ben's treatment here.. he bids 1M/2M on crap (sorta like 1M/3M, 0-6/7 or so)... pretty good law protected preempt

[skorchev]

1.) Yes!
2.) 2NT.


Stefan