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Reverses and bidding up the line

#1 User is offline   Creeksider 

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Posted 2011-February-20, 13:13

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We're taught to bid four-card suits up the line. If you end up bidding both suits you have a reverse, and that normally implies not only strength but also that the first suit bid was longer. This hand illustrates the issue, with GIB explaining the 2 bid as implying that responder has at least five hearts, when in fact responder had only two. Did GIB bid incorrectly here? Or is it merely a case where the explanation is incorrect in saying this type of reverse implies five hearts?
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#2 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2011-February-20, 13:42

2 doesn't promise five hearts and it doesn't promise four spades either. Since it's the cheapest forcing bid and a 4-4 spade fit is not possible, 2 can be various hand types, e.g.

- Game force with diamond support, since 3 would not be forcing
- Game force with six card heart suit, since 3 would also not be forcing
- Values and shape for NT but no club stop
- GF with five hearts hoping to hear of three card support
- 5-6 in the majors intending to rebid 3
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#3 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-February-20, 13:59

Glad to see one bot torturing another bot, as in this example. I don't think responder has enough to go slamming opposite a minimum opener with six diamonds. 3NT, rather than 2S, would have been the practical rebid.

I guess responder was using Nigel_k's first possibility, but I don't have to like it on this hand. 5D is a wrong-sided contract, if partner can't run the diamonds quickly and has no club help...so the gentle probe for the right strain seems wrong.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#4 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2011-February-24, 15:21

Other than that the auction was a bit long, the bots did fine. I would also have preferred a simple 3NT.
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#5 User is offline   Lurpoa 

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Posted 2011-February-25, 02:36

View PostCreeksider, on 2011-February-20, 13:13, said:

Handviewer link

We're taught to bid four-card suits up the line. If you end up bidding both suits you have a reverse, and that normally implies not only strength but also that the first suit bid was longer. This hand illustrates the issue, with GIB explaining the 2 bid as implying that responder has at least five hearts, when in fact responder had only two. Did GIB bid incorrectly here? Or is it merely a case where the explanation is incorrect in saying this type of reverse implies five hearts?



I am not really familiar with GIB.

(BTW: this is a SAYC and 2/1 Forum - there is another forum with more GIB experience)

Playing SAYC or BWS2001: I would say that the 2 rebid would promess 4 and 5, and is 1round forcing (no, I cannot find any arguments, that this should be GF)

Bob Herreman
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#6 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2011-February-25, 05:54

I don't think this auction has much to do with system. Whether one plays 2/1, SAYC, Acol, SEF or w/e, responder needs to bid a new suit at his 2nd turn to create a force so this can't promise 4-5. He would need to reverse also with a strong diamond raise, or with a balanced hand with five hearts, looking for the right strain.

Of course one could agree to play 2 (the cheapest bid in a new suit) as a relay. But absent such agreements one has to resort to semi-natural bidding.
... I am not at all keen on arriving at the 4 level with no idea of where our fit(s) might be. --- Zelandakh
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#7 User is offline   Creeksider 

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Posted 2011-February-27, 09:39

Thanks for the responses. I posted here rather than the GIB forum because I was trying to figure out the proper way to bid a hand like East's rather than raise an issue as to whether GIB did something wrong.
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