[BunnyGo]

You hold:

KQ9xxxx, Q, Kx, Q8x

in fourth seat. The opponents don't bid and the auction starts:

1♥-1♠
2♣-??

I bid 2♦ (4th suit game force). I considered 3♠, 4♠, but couldn't make up my mind.

The auction continued:

1♥-1♠
2♣-2♦*
2♥-2♠
3♥-3♠
4♣-4♥
AP

Partner was 1-6-1-5, down 2. I don't remember his cards, but he had opened pretty light.

Comments?

[mike777]

I would try 3s(inv) esp given pard opens lite/

[daveharty]

BunnyGo, on 2011-February-10, 22:01, said:

I don't remember his cards, but he had opened pretty light.

x AJ98xx Q A987x

I wasn't happy at all with my own bids here but I'm actually not sure what the "standard" way of bidding a minimal 6-5 hand like this would be. In retrospect I wish I had rebid 3C over 2D. Is there any case to be made for passing originally? I considered it but only for about a tenth of a second.

[phil_20686]

I would have just bid 4s over 2c. Seems pretty unlikely that you have any better spot, and you dont really have any slam ambitions. Sure, occasionally partner is 0-5-3-5, but then you normally arent making 5c either. I would just hope for 1 or two spades and lump game.

[wyman]

daveharty, on 2011-February-11, 09:16, said:

x AJ98xx Q A987x

I wasn't happy at all with my own bids here but I'm actually not sure what the "standard" way of bidding a minimal 6-5 hand like this would be. In retrospect I wish I had rebid 3C over 2D. Is there any case to be made for passing originally? I considered it but only for about a tenth of a second.

I would open this in every seat at every vulnerability at every form of scoring. [The only pause I would have would be in 4th seat, wondering what had happened that all those spades hadn't piped up yet, but there's too much game potential to let this one go imo.]

I would have rebid the clubs over 2D. And then I probably would have bid 4H over 3S and passed a 4S rebid by P.

I think I'd be punting spades as OP. He's missing 4 keys so opener needs to have a fair amount here for a slam (plus it's a club game in a weak-ish field, so missing the slam won't be particularly disastrous). He needs P to have 3 aces, the club king, and 2+ spades for slam to be reasonable. I think 1H-1S; 2C-nS, where n is 3 if you're being conservative and 4 if you're being aggressive is fine. I think at the table I'd choose 4S, and I know that's what I'd choose at IMPs, but there are MP experts here who can give you a better idea. I think the 2D checkback is better when you don't know what strain or level you want to play in. In other words, FSF doesn't need to be used on every hand that is a game force; rather, it should be used when there's info we need to elicit from P.

One last thing, if my P punted 4S in this auction, and I held 3+ keys and 2 spades, I'd probably make a move, so maybe missing the slam isn't even as big of a concern.

[dake50]

I actually like 1h-1s-, 2c-3c*** :found our fit.
If partner is 14-ish he continues
and then I show rebiddable spades.
This time we quit 3C.

Yet, 1h-1s-, 2c-2d-(4thsuitF1), 2h-2s-, 3c should be quitable.

[tolvyrj]

Im no Universum expert, but i saw no flaw in u bidding. Yes prd opened light; they do that dont they,s/he took his/hers chances. I would have done same thing i guess. Now back to u; after u had used 4th suit u cant actually pass before game, did i understood right? So u went overboard, it happens; theres no perfect system, just those who worked most of the cases but not all of them.

[mtvesuvius]

I'd have bid 4♠ over 2♣, this auction seems stronger and more slammish, which is certainly not what you want. I think 3♣ over 2♦ is good, planning to bid 4♥ next. As it was, the hand was quite unfortunate, I promise it won't be the last time someone goes down a few in a freely bid game.

[MrAce]

4♠ after 2♣ shows much different hand than this to me, It is too early to make the final game decision in spades imo. I think u did fine by 2♦ but at some point u shd have bid 4♠ after that. Either after pd's 2♥ or 3♣ bid.

As your pd's opening, i open lighter hands than this, but with different suits. ♥+♣ is always pain in the neck. If u dont find fit u are screwed because u dont have the enuf hcps to handle a misfit hand, if u find a fit they have too usually and u are dominated.

[whereagles]

2♠ over 2♥ doesn't sound right to me. Prefer 3♠, either then or directly over 2♣ if I feel miserable.

[gszes]

not a horrible start after p bids 2h you have learned a WHOLE lot about their hand

they are not 55 65 56 else they would bid 3c (not 2h)
p is almost assuredly 64 so the only question is how are the other 3 cards distributed?

they could be 1714 2704 1624 2614 0724 0634

you seem to be best served by bidding 4s now there is only one instance (out of 6) where
you would be better off in hearts. Taking any more time to arrive at your contract makes
it seem you are seeking slam (fast arrival)

Light openers can pay off big time when there is a fit but they suffer when there is not.
It is difficult to assume p is always dead minimum becasue you will miss a huge number of
easily biddable games. Decide if you are willing to suffer the occasional overbid or not but dont let it dramatically affect your bidding otherwise.

[OleBerg]

You did fine, keeping many strains open all the way.

Your partner should have bid 3♣ over 2♠, and had absolutely no buisness passing 4♥. He had already already shown a 6-card-suit, and the ♥Q single is more than he could expect. (I'd have expected 4♣ and 4♥ to be cuebids, but you seem to agree they are not.)

With two aces and few intermidiates, the hand screams that your 6-1 fit, will be better than his. And you might have seven, he knows he only has six.

Edit: Depending on agreements, partner maybe should have bid 3 clubs immidiately after 2 diamonds.

[aguahombre]

Backing way up to Mike777's post. Brief and concise. I have a 7-card suit and think that should be trump. I have invitational strength opposite this partner. 3S shows a "good" invite when partner has shown 2 other suits. With the given hand he will (should) pass 3S.

[daveharty]

OleBerg, on 2011-February-17, 12:34, said:

You did fine, keeping many strains open all the way.

Your partner should have bid 3♣ over 2♠, and had absolutely no buisness passing 4♥. He had already already shown a 6-card-suit, and the ♥Q single is more than he could expect. (I'd have expected 4♣ and 4♥ to be cuebids, but you seem to agree they are not.)

With two aces and few intermidiates, the hand screams that your 6-1 fit, will be better than his. And you might have seven, he knows he only has six.

Edit: Depending on agreements, partner maybe should have bid 3 clubs immidiately after 2 diamonds.

I agree with some of this, and I feel that the major mistake in the auction was my failure to bid 3C immediately after 2D. If I had held my partner's cards, I would have jumped to 3S at my second turn as mike777 suggests, but I don't fault his decision to GF with the hand. But I disagree with you about passing 4H; IMO we were still searching for strain at that point, so I don't think it's plausible to treat 4C and 4H as cues. As for aguahombre's comment: yes, I would have passed 3S.

If I was assigning blame on the hand, 10% to partner for not jump rebidding spades, 90% to me for first not rebidding 3C immediately over 2D, and then the subsequent horror.

[BunnyGo]

daveharty, on 2011-February-17, 13:23, said:

I agree with some of this, and I feel that the major mistake in the auction was my failure to bid 3C immediately after 2D. If I had held my partner's cards, I would have jumped to 3S at my second turn as mike777 suggests, but I don't fault his decision to GF with the hand. But I disagree with you about passing 4H; IMO we were still searching for strain at that point, so I don't think it's plausible to treat 4C and 4H as cues. As for aguahombre's comment: yes, I would have passed 3S.

If I was assigning blame on the hand, 10% to partner for not jump rebidding spades, 90% to me for first not rebidding 3C immediately over 2D, and then the subsequent horror.

Personally I was thinking (especially after the above discussion) more like 30-40% to me for not bidding 3]SP] and 80-90% for you for not bidding 3♣. But who knows. Thanks to all for your thoughts, they were instructive.

[daveharty]

BunnyGo, on 2011-February-17, 17:21, said:

Personally I was thinking (especially after the above discussion) more like 30-40% to me for not bidding 3]SP] and 80-90% for you for not bidding 3♣.

As always, your math skills are impressive.

[MrAce]

daveharty, on 2011-February-17, 22:30, said:

As always, your math skills are impressive.