[Gerben42]

Many opponents play a weak NT. As usual, this caused some problems.

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You play Multi Landy, i.e. 2♠ would be ♠+minor. Do you bid at your first or second turn, or do you pass twice?

More to come soon.

[cherdano]

I think you have to pass on the first round and bid 2♠ on the second round. Bidding right away should promise more values. Bidding on the second round is dangerous, but so is passing.

(If 2♠ promises 5-5 then there is a stronger case for bidding right away, but it's still too much. Also, against weak NT it's probably more important to be able to show values and the nature of the hand, so 2♠ probably should show 5-4 only.)

[wank]

i would rather slit my wrists than pass on the first round.

[pooltuna]

cherdano, on 2011-February-13, 13:59, said:

I think you have to pass on the first round and bid 2♠ on the second round. Bidding right away should promise more values. Bidding on the second round is dangerous, but so is passing.

(If 2♠ promises 5-5 then there is a stronger case for bidding right away, but it's still too much. Also, against weak NT it's probably more important to be able to show values and the nature of the hand, so 2♠ probably should show 5-4 only.)

Generally agree with the first paragraph. Not sure I follow the argument for the second paragraph about being specifically 5-4 as IMO the chance of game has to exist at a higher level with 5-5 and you need it high as possible at these colors.

[mtvesuvius]

When playing against a weak NT I prefer to bid Soundly in direct, and aggressively in balancing. I'd pass this hand first, then come in with 2♠.

[mfa1010]

Clear 2♠ first time for me.

[kayin801]

I'd guess I'm already limited if I bid the first time, so I'm not worried about partner going nuts. On top of that partner won't guess a 5 card side suit if I bid spades the second time around. I'm not thrilled at this vulnerability, but I'm going for 2♠ the first time around.

[kgr]

Initially I also found this a clear "2♠ first time" bid.
But maybe you need more against weak NT than against strong NT, because you want to bid more constructive?

[phil_20686]

That is one argument. But in practice competeing the partscores/disrupting thier auction, gets you more imps than bidding the occasional game, so I have moved towards a partscore oreientated overcalls. As a uk player I play against a wk nt all the time, and I would have bid 2!s initially despite the danger. In our style partner basically only gets to raise when he has distribution of his own, so we should not get too high unless 2s is already too high.

[mike777]

pass and pass.

Look forward to hearing how this one should be bid.

[andy_h]

Prefer to bid the first time with this 5-5.

[han]

I'd bid 2S right away, this is a good hand. But at least understand the initial passers.

Passing twice is idiotic imho.

[FrancesHinden]

I'd bid the first time. If I somehow passed over 1NT I would bid 2S over 2H.

[gordontd]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-February-13, 16:07, said:

When playing against a weak NT I prefer to bid Soundly in direct, and aggressively in balancing. I'd pass this hand first, then come in with 2♠.

But you aren't balancing the second time round - which is why I'd bid 2♠ on the first round in spite of the lack of high cards.

[whereagles]

2♠ 1st round. Not 2nd round because that is WAY more dangerous, as opps already exchanged information.

[Gerben42]

I sympathize a lot with my partner on this one. He bid 2♠ double pass pass pass for -500. Those clever posters who bid 2♠ on their second turn would share that score too as responder basically had an 11-count with 4 great ♠.

At the other table, 3NT went down after 1♦ 1♠ 2♥ Pass 3♣ Pass 3NT

[mike777]

Gerben I wanted to say thank you for starting this thread.

This was indeed a very interesting hand and I learned something from all the posters, thanks.

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I emailed this hand around and here were a few comments I got back:

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"If you’ve got something in your bag that shows a two suiter,

Then you gotta trot it out there, playing live or on your ‘puter.



and the earlier the better. Don’t sit there and shudder.

Get in. get out. and shake it all about!



Was it Gotlieb, Williams, or maybe a ghost of Crane tweet

That said whether you’re playin’ pinballs or pasteboards,

It’s more fun to compete!!"

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"...

I would pass both times, as I think you did, Michael.



Either form of scoring.



NV versus VUL, I might act the 2nd time around, but not sure what I would do. 2S seems to committal. Double is possible and convert 3C to 3D. Don’t want partner to “convert” the double, so that action seems flawed."
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"I thought the tone of my response made it clear that I didn't think passing both times was "idiotic". I just know that if I pass the second time it is going to go 4H pass pass to me and if I pass now, pard will have Qxxx xxx Ax Kxxx and we will be -420 at our table and -620 at the other table. Or I will bid now and go for 1100. Better to take the risk at the 2-level than wonder whether to take it at the 4-level."

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"I agree that the Qx of clubs is a negative. My point is still that pass will work out badly in most cases. Give partner even a fairly bad holding with some values: Qx, AQxx, Qxx, xxxx. They may still make 2H, and we are very likely to make 2S. Give partner a better hand for me: Qxx, Axxx, Axx, Kxx, and 4S is likely cold, and again they are making 2H. Partner would never balance over 2H with either hand. You have short hearts, and have to compete at some point."
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[Fluffy]

I agree with cherdano