[dodzi]

Are there official BBO guidelines on when to alert? I had a look just now but couldn't find anything.

I was playing in a (free) tournament whose rules state 'alert all conventional bids'. I have prepared and uploaded a convention card. As the use of convention cards is still rather limited, we took the trouble to inform all opponents that we have loaded our CC. We followed the tournament rules and alerted conventional bids including Stayman and transfers - I didn't notice anyone else bothering to do this.

We play weak NT (12-14). Now as a courtesy I usually alert this but at one table I forgot to do so. I didn't worry too much as the range was on our CC and in partner's profile. In any case it is not a conventional bid so needn't be alerted (per the tourney rules).

At the end of the hand (which we played in 2♠ - 2) the opponents noticed that they had a combined 27 count (split 14, 13) and complained to the director. Director ruled that as CC was posted there was no problem. One opponent insisted that weak NT is a conventional bid and demanded an average +. The director did not agree and the player favoured me with a stream of abuse along the lines of 'you are not gentlemen'.

I do not find this acceptable. I wonder at the state of mind of a person that can get so upset over one board in a fairly meaningless tournament, but perhaps if there are clear alerting guidelines if would help avoid scenes like this. It is as if certain players view weak NT as something akin to foul play. If BBO officially state that opening 1NT other than 15-17 should be alerted then we'll know where we stand. But do not let people say that weak NT is a convention because it is not - any more than strong NT is.

[inquiry]

It is never acceptable to be rude in the BBO. Please take screen shots or send a message with appoximate date and tiem and the name of the offending player(s) to abuse @ bridge base dot com (use period instead of dot and no spaces)....

In the US during tourment play, it is customary to "announce" ones' notrump range.. .on the bbo I try to remember to "alert aka announce" mine, wihich is usually 14-16....

But you are right, you did nothing wrong. I would preannounce weak nt in the future, however...

Ben

[dodzi]

In England a balanced 1NT is never alerted, however it is your responsibility to know your opponents 1NT range (by checking their CC). Although most play 12-14 NT here there is no presumption that this is the default range. I usually do announce our NT range at the start of each round. On the occasion in question my partner announced instead that our CC was loaded, which ought to be enough, but we shall certainly say something like 'We play weak NT, see Convention card'.

[epeeist]

As to your question, if you go to the tournament page and look at "tournament rules" (i.e. those applicable to all BBO tournaments), it mentions in one paragraph if in doubt alert, what is "standard" in one part of the world may not be in another, etc. Mind you, I rarely find opps doing this in practice... I probably fall short myself.

My own pet peeve is those who fail to alert 4NT. First, in some sequences it's unclear to me whether it's a quantitative raise or blackwood (and, it's almost always blackwood but not alerted, I have to ask for an explanation). Second, even if alerted, or even if answer "blackwood", about half the time I have to waste time inquiring whether it's standard or rkc blackwood (and whether 0314 or 1430) -- I'm entitled to know, and to understand how many aces or keycards, respectively have been signalled. But unless I ask, I almost NEVER see that information volunteered. I can't assume, just because e.g. one opp's profile says rkcb, that they're using it -- because a fair proportion of the time, I've found opps using conventions that "contradict" what their profiles say.

[paulhar]

epeeist, on Aug 31 2004, 03:02 PM, said:

My own pet peeve is those who fail to alert 4NT. First, in some sequences it's unclear to me whether it's a quantitative raise or blackwood (and, it's almost always blackwood but not alerted, I have to ask for an explanation).

If their partner has doesn't know for sure which it is, I don't think the 4NT bidder has any obligation whatsoever to tell you. Mind you, if a bid is played some way most of the time in North America and some other way most of the time in Europe, then you have a right to know. But in my experience, most players bid 4NT and it doesn't matter what part of the world you're from, it might be quantitative or it might be BW and both partners are guessing. If you have a regular partner, of course, then perhaps you should tell the opponents. Frankly, I would be at fault in this case too, if I opened 1NT and any of my friends (people I've played 5 or 6 hands with that seemed like we were compatible) bid 4NT, I would take it as quantitative and it would just never occur to me to Alert (but of course I would answer the question if asked.) Similarly with 1C-1H-1NT-4NT. If partner answered aces, I would be mildly shocked, but that just goes to prove that perhaps I shouldn't be alerting it. I guess my point is that without a regular partnership, (and even in some regular partnerships), you know as much as the partner as the 4NT bidder so the 4NT bidder shouldn't tell you what he has when his partner doesn't know either.

[jtfanclub]

dodzi, on Aug 31 2004, 01:07 PM, said:

We play weak NT (12-14). Now as a courtesy I usually alert this but at one table I forgot to do so. I didn't worry too much as the range was on our CC and in partner's profile. In any case it is not a conventional bid so needn't be alerted (per the tourney rules).

Your basic system used an intermediate NT (I refuse to call that a weak NT), right? You weren't playing, say, SAYC with an intermediate NT right? So why should it be a surprise?

It's polite to alert it. I don't think it's rude to fail to do so, nor is it illegal.

The one I liked was where a person opened first hand, NV, 1NT and alerted it as 12-14. Then the next board (same opps) he openens it fourth hand, V, 1NT and does not alert it because it now shows 15-17. Now that got a scream to the director.

[Rain]

dodzi, on Aug 31 2004, 12:07 PM, said:

Are there official BBO guidelines on when to alert? I had a look just now but couldn't find anything.

No official BBO guidelines on when to alert, except that when in doubt, alert, because its self alert and won't prejudice partner...........(This is in the BBO rules of the site, 1st article in library)

I think since what you described happened in a tournament, the tournament rules will give a clearer idea of what is expected in that tournament. BBO tourneys are pretty free, TDs can host whatever type of tourneys they wish to; If they wish to host ACOL tourneys, then probably bids that are normally alertable in ACOL should be alerted.

*this is what I think*



Rain

[Deanrover]

There is no excuse for the abuse you received. Sadly, it is widespread on BBO. I tend to alert everything (will alert NT as 15-17, stayman etc.) just to avoid any trouble/controversy.

[epeeist]

paulhar, on Aug 31 2004, 03:15 PM, said:

epeeist, on Aug 31 2004, 03:02 PM, said:

My own pet peeve is those who fail to alert 4NT. First, in some sequences it's unclear to me whether it's a quantitative raise or blackwood (and, it's almost always blackwood but not alerted, I have to ask for an explanation).

If their partner has doesn't know for sure which it is, I don't think the 4NT bidder has any obligation whatsoever to tell you. Mind you, if a bid is played some way most of the time in North America and some other way most of the time in Europe, then you have a right to know. But in my experience, most players bid 4NT and it doesn't matter what part of the world you're from, it might be quantitative or it might be BW and both partners are guessing. If you have a regular partner, of course, then perhaps you should tell the opponents. Frankly, I would be at fault in this case too, if I opened 1NT and any of my friends (people I've played 5 or 6 hands with that seemed like we were compatible) bid 4NT, I would take it as quantitative and it would just never occur to me to Alert (but of course I would answer the question if asked.) Similarly with 1C-1H-1NT-4NT. If partner answered aces, I would be mildly shocked, but that just goes to prove that perhaps I shouldn't be alerting it. I guess my point is that without a regular partnership, (and even in some regular partnerships), you know as much as the partner as the 4NT bidder so the 4NT bidder shouldn't tell you what he has when his partner doesn't know either.

There was a discussion of this point (do you have to alert if can't be SURE p will understand) in a thread I started at:

http://bridgebase.lunarpages.com/~bridge2/...topic=4214&st=0

In which there were a variety of opinions, but I felt alerts should still be made and (I think, this is paraphrased, apologies if incorrect) jtfanclub made the point, when directing a tournament, and a pair appeared to have "understood" each other's bids, he didn't pay too much credence to a claim that there was no agreement between them.

If you bid 4NT (intending it as blackwood), and partner replies 5♣, whether in an individual or a pairs tournament, you may not KNOW for a certainty whether partner has 0/4 aces or 0/3 keycards (or something else) because even with a regular partner he or she might have decided to do something else or thought your 4NT was quantitative or have misclicked etc., but if when you made the 4NT bid it was intended as conventional, and and when your p bid 5♣ it was conventional and he or she intended to tell you something about what aces/keycards was in his or her hand, it's alertable.

Now, if a tournament wants to change the rules "table talk allowed to tell p what your bids mean", okay (NOT!). Mind you, I had one pair of opponents tell each other what their 4NT and 5♦ response met in public chat in an ACBL tournament (one thought regular blackwood, the other rkcb, but they straightened it out by telling each other what each meant before bidding over!), but that was NOT permissible under the rules...