[1axbycz1]

As a beginner, one of the first few rules I learnt is that 4M works better than 3N in the presence of an 8-card fit or better. However, as I gain experience, I realise that quite often, that only 9 tricks are available whether I play in major or NTs. Or worse still, sometimes I can only make 8 in a trump contract but 9 in NT.

My question here: How to identify such situations? What is the general type of hand for this? I have identified one type; where the bidding shows that the opps have unbalanced hands and they are likely to take an early defensive ruff. What else?

[mikestar13]

Actually, a more common type is when both our hands are balanced and we can't expect ruffs. Also weak trumps strong side suits can be an indication: 4M may go down on a bad break when 3NT rolls.

[1axbycz1]

Ah, yes. I know, the primary purpose of having a trump suit is to act as a stopper. And the stopper is only effective if we can ruff. I need to consider ruffing value as well. 4333 and 4333 belong into NTs and not the 8 card fit, right?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

if we have a major suit fit, we play the major, simplifies life.
Usually you make one trick more playing the major than playing in NT.

If you have an abundance of HCP, NT plays better, say you have 29-30HCP,
both are bal. so making 6M is not an real option, than 3NT will be quite
oft en best.

If you can detect mirror shapes, than NT usually also plays better, mirror
shapes can be detected, if you agree to play certain conventions, e.g.
after a 1NT opening a 3M bid showes 4333 (with the other major), you can
agree to play this, if you dont use 3M already for showing something else.

Overall - the issue is not as important, as the amount of discussion would
indicate.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jukmoi]

Here is Woolseys list from his book "Matchpoints" (if memory serves me right).

1. Bad intermediates in trumps. If they break 4-1 there is often extra loser in M.
2. Balanced distribution (4333) speaks for NT.
3. Holdings in short suits. Strenght in short suits imply NT.
4. Excessive strenght (in the 28-30 hcp range) indicate NT. Often you would be ruffing winners in major-suit game.

[Fluffy]

Queens, Jacks and Tens in suits of 2-3 cards call for NT slightly.

Aces and Kings in short suits ask for suit contracts slightly

5-3 fit with the 3 card having a 4333 heavilly asks for NT.

4-2 fits where you have slow tricks on that suit is also a heavy indicator for NT

If you have Jxx opposite Qxx or Qx you normally do better in NT. The problem is when you have Jx opposite Qx, then you do it awfully in NT and there is no way to find out in standard methods

[mgoetze]

jukmoi, on 2010-November-22, 02:41, said:

4. Excessive strenght (in the 28-30 hcp range) indicate NT. Often you would be ruffing winners in major-suit game.

A favourite story of mine: at a club game, my partner opened 2♦ multi (20-21 balanced or weak 2 in either major). I had 8 or 9 points and 4-4 majors, and responded 3♥. Partner corrected to 3NT, for a lonely top when we took the same 11 tricks everyone else was taking in 4M. The disadvantage of a possibly strong multi is that you'd like to do the same with 4 points...

[pooltuna]

modify your rules for using stayman and transfers when the combined assests exceed 27 HCH

[nigel_k]

My rule of thumb is to play 3NT with 4333 opposite 5332 and 4 of the major otherwise. There will be more hands that play better in 3NT but it's quite hard to identify them because it depends on precise placement of the cards.

[Fluffy]

There are some hands that also do better with 6 card major, and they are easier to look after. The base hand is AKQxxx and 3 aces, so if you or partner have a 6 card suit and you share all the top honnors along with and aces+spaces start to think about 3NT

[awm]

I played the following hand yesterday.

---

West was dealer. The entire field played in 4♥. Some people made it when the wrong suit was lead, but most went down.

Of course, 3NT is completely cold and might make ten tricks if opponents do not cash out fast enough.

This one seems tough -- there is a nine card fit, you don't have excess high card points, and the shorter hand includes a small doubleton (so not 4333).

[han]

Here is a rule that I've often heard:

When you have found an 8-card major suit fit and partner offers 3NT, then:

If your hand looks suitable for notrump, bid 4M.

if not, pass.